Improvements with modded Panny

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Mathew_M

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Improvements with modded Panny
« on: 5 Feb 2006, 06:21 pm »
I don't have a modded Panny but I'm interested in having it done.

I'm really impressed by the sound I'm getting now with the XR 25 and Squeezebox.  I probably wouldn't get the 25 modded as it seems there's not a lot that can be done with it.  However I was thinking the 55 or 70 model.  What kind of improvements would I be hearing over my stock 25?  There's a certain 'splashy-ness' to cymbals still that I would like resolved and the high end could use some treatment.  The question is it worth it for the $1100 or would I better off sticking the money elsewhere.

Also if anyone has a modded Panny they might be interested in selling PM me.

Thanks

Wayne1

Improvements with modded Panny
« Reply #1 on: 5 Feb 2006, 09:06 pm »
Matthew,

The power supply section of the SA-XR25 is just about the same as the ones used in the SA-XR55 and 70. The ONLY Panasonic receiver with signifigant upgrade in the power supply section was the SA-XR45.

When they went to the SA-XR50 and higher series, all of the speaker signal was then fed through relays. Yet another mechanical connection in the signal path. With the SA-XR25 and 45 the signal can be routed directly from the ouput filter to the speaker connector jacks.

Most of the improvements are a smoothness (less harshness) and increase in micro dynamics.

The Panny receivers will still need some form of AC conditioning to bring out their best. I use my modded SA-XR70 in my HT with VMPS RM-626Rs. I have a Equi=Tech Son of Q balanced power unit befor the Panny. I also use a power cable with Bybee purifiers built into it running into the Panny.

Mathew_M

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Improvements with modded Panny
« Reply #2 on: 6 Feb 2006, 01:58 am »
Thanks Wayne

It sounds like the 25 is actually better than the 55 as far as digital stereo playback, correct?

I'm hearing a super clean and clear sound now with the Squeezebox.  I use the 626R's as well.  In fact I don't know how it could get any clearer.  What I might be hearing are just limitations of the redbook format.  I'm amazed how fast music seems.  Every transient is very accented.  I'm not using any filtering outside of plugging it directly into a DIY powerstrip.

windwaves

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Improvements with modded Panny
« Reply #3 on: 9 Feb 2006, 03:25 am »
is changing the power cord then a first "easy" step to improved sound with the Panny XR55 ?  which power cord would do the most ?

thx

tschanrm

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Improvements with modded Panny
« Reply #4 on: 20 Feb 2006, 06:29 am »
Quote
The ONLY Panasonic receiver with signifigant upgrade in the power supply section was the SA-XR45.


I think the extra components in the xr45 were more for filtering than power, right?  The extra components probably give it a little bit more headroom than the xr25, but I'm guessing the components were mainly there to create a better sounding receiver.  The XR45 is not the only receiver with these extra parts; the xr10's power supply has the same type of filtering/capacitors found on the xr45.  Here's some internal shot comparisons:

XR55 (56k warning):
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=21634&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

XR25 (sorry, best picture I could find):


XR45:


XR10:



Sound and Vision magazine test results for the xr25 also lead me to believe that the extra components in the xr45 are mainly for filtering.  They took down articles from 2003, but luckily I saved the page.:) Here is the test results of the xr25 (courtesy of S&V):
Top half:

Bottom Half:


82x5@8 ohm, all channels driven.  At 1 watt the xr25 still has .13% thd!  The owner's manual for the XR45/25 (they use the same manual) states 100 watts@6 ohm, further suggesting that it is for mainly filtering.



Quote
It sounds like the 25 is actually better than the 55 as far as digital stereo playback, correct?


Feature-wise, the xr55 is better than the 25.  The 55 and 25 will probably sound the very similar, with maybe an edge to the 55  simply because it has updated TI equibit parts.  Wayne is right in that there are speaker protection relays in the 55, however it is uknown how much they affect sound quality.  The xr45/25 and the XR55 both use 3 tas5182's, they are the digital amplifier power stage controllers.  However,  the xr25/45 use an older tas5036 chip for PWM processing, while the xr55 uses the newer tas5076 chip for PWM processing.  The xr55 can also "Dual Amp" mode.  I have no idea if it makes a difference, but here is what the manual says:

Quote
Enjoy a higher quality sound during stereo playback by playing
the sound through the amplifiers used for multi-channel sound
sources.


Just a quick note about the xr70.  The front channel output stages for the xr70 use discreet components instead of the tas5182.  The front channels  probably sound better than the xr55 and x25 fron channels because of this.  S&V tested the xr70 to only have .03% thd at 1 watt, most likely on the front channel.  The xr70 also tested 77x6@8 ohms.  



Overall, if you plan using the receiver for stereo mode only, stick with the xr25.  If you are looking for more features in the receiver, consider upgrading.


-------------
P.S.  

Quote
is changing the power cord then a first "easy" step to improved sound with the Panny XR55 ? which power cord would do the most ?


I'm not going to get into the whole power cord debate, but if you are looking for a cheap way to reduce some RFI, buy this:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103222&cp=&kw=choke+filter&parentPage=search

Place close (oh, maybe 6 inches or so) to where the a/c plug attaches to the back of the receiver. The stock xr10 power cord has this ferrite choke on it (omitted on all other models), so it must have helped with something.

tschanrm

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Improvements with modded Panny
« Reply #5 on: 21 Feb 2006, 02:23 am »
I've just found some sunken treasure!  While searching for xr45 specs, I came across reviews for a lot of Panasonic's XR line-up.  Just search for panasonic models and you should find the reviews.

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/reviews/

Here's the test results from the xr45:

25x5 channels@8ohm with .1% thd
20x5 channels@4ohm with .1% thd
10x1 channel@8ohm with .05% thd

Here's results from the xr25:
(i'm assuming it's all channels driven since the results are almost identical to the xr45)

20x5 channels@8ohm with .1% thd
25x5 channels@4ohm with .1% thd
10x1 channel@8ohm with .05% thd



The 10 watt number surprises me.  Looks like the xr45's extra p/s section gives it just a bit more power.  I wonder why S&V test results had the xr25 at .13% @ 1 watt, while this review has .05% at 10 watts?