Amp decisions...

nickspicks · « **on:** 4 Feb 2006, 12:44 pm »

Hey all...

im looking for some new amplification, and am pondering the following.
Odyssy stratos
Monarchy Audio (the 100watters)
CIA D-100s

the CIAs are a bit out of my immediate price range, but I'm sure I can swing it if need be.
Anyone ever directly compare any of these? or have experience w/any/all of them at some pont in time?

I lean towards the Odyssy.
as you can tell, i'm into value gear. high performance at realistic prices. and I LOVE used gear. the Monarchy and Oddyssys being had easily under a grand.,..that is where i'm trying to stay. D-100s, i dont see those come up for sale very often, and I expect its for good reason.

nickspicks · « **Reply #1 on:** 7 Feb 2006, 12:33 pm »

bueller?

kfr01 · « **Reply #2 on:** 7 Feb 2006, 02:02 pm »

You're probably not getting much response because not many folks out there have directly compared them.

The stratos and the ciaudio d100's aren't quite in the same category, other than being known as a good value.

The d100s are tiny, efficient, and run very cool.

The stratos are 54lbs+, class a/ab, and need some nice big side fins to cool.

If used statos are available to you, I would buy one, keep it in nice condition, etc. and if a D100 set ever hits the used market, by it too... Then resell the one you don't want to keep.

nickspicks · « **Reply #3 on:** 7 Feb 2006, 02:29 pm »

thanks for the responce...
I think they would be sort of the same in terms of power output. sure, they are not the same size or "class" rating, but its all about the ears, and I was just looking for someone to say "i've heard both, and they are very close, or very far apart..etc."

ah well.
i'll probably check out the Odysseys. more power is better for me. driving some VR4s.

kfr01 · « **Reply #4 on:** 7 Feb 2006, 04:49 pm »

Quote from: nickspicks

thanks for the responce...
I think they would be sort of the same in terms of power output. sure, they are not the same size or "class" rating, but its all about the ears, and I was just looking for someone to say "i've heard both, and they are very close, or very far apart..etc."

ah well.
i'll probably check out the Odysseys. more power is better for me. driving some VR4s.

The more I learn about audio, the more I think putting the best sounding system together is about synergy. Yes, synergy is becoming quite the cliche in audio, but I really think it has merit.

How are your VR4s characterized? Where do you think your weak spots are? How are the CI D100 / Stratos characterized? Which would bolster your weak spots better? Do you need an ultra efficient / low heat amplifier?

I recently demoed the Exodus UCD400 amplifier, which is probably really similar in sound to the CI D100.

I use Exodus 2641 towers. The midrange is very detailed. The highs are nice, but the Usher tweeter has been characterized by some as a touch soft at high frequencies. I also felt my old amplifier was lacking in bass grip.

With the Exodus UCD400 my midrange was almost too detailed for my taste. The UCD's are really detailed. I felt like the midrange at low volume levels was ever so slightly unnatural.

I recently had the opportunity to try a parasound hca3500 with my system (large class a/ab amp). Stereophile and others complain that the highs are a bit edgy with this amp. Given the somewhat soft highs my tweeter provide, this was actually a match for me. The midrange is a touch smoother and musical at low volume levels. This helps compensate for the highly detailed midrange driver in my speaker. The bass grip was really great with the UCDs, but the parasound matches it in that category too.

The UCD based Exodus was a great sounding amplifier in an impressive package at an impressive price. However, a good old fashioned class a/ab provided a better fit with my system and I am happier with the overall musical impression than I was with the Exodus UCD400. I bought the parasound.

I'd start listing characteristics of your speakers and current system. Then list the characteristics of the amplifiers you're considering. It'll at least give you a crude estimate of what to expect.

MaxCast · « **Reply #5 on:** 7 Feb 2006, 05:30 pm »

I second the idea of a used Stratos. If you make a good deal you could sell it for what you paid for it.

nickspicks · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Feb 2006, 05:39 pm »

I know what you mean about synergy.

hontestly though, my speakers do everything right that I like. I can't fault them at all...comparred to what i've heard in my house (lots of shit, other VSAs, Martin logans, vandy's, etc).

I just want an amp that has gobs of power, bass controll, liquid mid range, non-fatiguing highs and a completely emersive 3-dimensional sound stage.
and I want it for under a grand used.

is that too much to ask?

budyog · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Feb 2006, 05:48 pm »

You should add AVA, Frank Van Alstine to your amp search. You will be glad you did!

http://www.avahifi.com/root/equipment/amplifier/comparison_grid.htm

miklorsmith · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Feb 2006, 06:07 pm »

I think you just described the mission statement for every audiophile at every price point. I'll venture to guess you won't find all of those attributes in quantity at that, or possibly any price.

Gobs of power is an expensive commodity. It will almost assuredly come at the price of some other (possibly all other) elements. Lower power = better sound at most price points. Of course, this is simplification but you get the idea.

And, the question of synergy is a big one. The example given earlier is excellent - some very well regarded amplifiers may not sound that great with your speakers. Remember that every speaker has its own impedance and efficiency "fingerprint" that makes it unlike any other. Those characteristics further vary depending on volume and musical selection. "Revealing" speakers might need a bit softer amp. And, this is also related to your upstream components which might need to be caudled or exhalted, depending on their qualities.

Try not to think of building the system as a "Category A, Category B" exercize. It's more of a pain in the arse but also completely worthwhile.

Digi-G · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Feb 2006, 08:11 pm »

FWIW, I'll put my vote in for the Odyssey. Same situtation here - I haven't heard the other amps you asked about. But I love my Odyssey Stratos. In my system it's got great control of the bass, liquid midrange, etc. Around $1500 new - it seems like used ones are very hard to find (I don't think many owners part with them). Most people that go with the Stratos (myself included) are amazed at the performance vs cost ratio.

woodsyi · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Feb 2006, 08:23 pm »

Quote from: nickspicks

I know what you mean about synergy.

hontestly though, my speakers do everything right that I like. I can't fault them at all...comparred to what i've heard in my house (lots of shit, other VSAs, Martin logans, vandy's, etc).

I just want an amp that has gobs of power, bass controll, liquid mid range, non-fatiguing highs and a completely emersive 3-dimensional sound stage.
and I want it for under a grand used.

is that too much to ask?

No. You can always ask, but if you find one PM me and I will buy the lot, repackage them and sell it for 5k each.

rbrb · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Feb 2006, 09:06 pm »

Nick are you still using the DA3000ES as your pre amp? I have often wondered what it would sound like pre out to a class D amp like the NuForce 8.5.

Might make a cool combo.

ctviggen · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Feb 2006, 09:09 pm »

Actually, the Nuforce isn't class D. They call it an "analog switching amplifier". Class AD? Its own class? Not sure.

rbrb · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Feb 2006, 09:11 pm »

There seems to be a misconception that Class D stands for digital when in fact it was just the next letter in line.

nickspicks · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 Feb 2006, 09:13 pm »

my asking for all things, and under a grand ...I hope was read w/the sarcasm intended.

yes, i'm still using the 3000es to run the whole shebang. but its time for a change up.
I'll be running a audio experience symphonies + > ? > Vr4s.

I'd love to keep the Sony and use it as a DAC, but the electronics for the analog output are subpar at best. that thing cooks in the digital domain though. Its the only DSD converting gadget i know of under $7k. that is where its magic is.

but...I'll probably move on to a Belcanto 2.0 or a Grace 901.
my source is a Toshiba SD9200 that i use only as a transport. I hope its analog output is decent, as I'll be relying on it for a while.

skrivis · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 Feb 2006, 09:22 pm »

Quote from: rbrb

There seems to be a misconception that Class D stands for digital when in fact it was just the next letter in line.

I see a lot of amps that pretty well fit into "Class D." I'd include NuForce and Tripath. They may call it something else to differentiate themselves, but it all looks similar to me.

I'll second Budyog's vote for AVA. The OmegaStar 240EX is under $1K new, has gobs of bass power, a liquid midrange, etc. Plus, it comes with a money back guarantee.

Tweaker · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 Feb 2006, 09:41 pm »

I have a pair of AVA Omegastar 260 EX amps and would not hesitate to recommend any of his solid state amps. They aren't going to win any beauty contests but sonically they are excellent.

Horizons · « **Reply #17 on:** 8 Feb 2006, 11:41 pm »

The Monarchy's did not work in my system with Maggie 1.6QRs. They were almost too revealing.

Believe it or not, I have settled on a low end Parasound and have no desire to upgrade.

Joules · « **Reply #18 on:** 8 Feb 2006, 11:55 pm »

Quote

No. You can always ask, but if you find one PM me and I will buy the lot, repackage them and sell it for 5k each.

AKSA !!!

nickspicks · « **Reply #19 on:** 9 Feb 2006, 12:14 am »

Quote from: Horizons

The Monarchy's did not work in my system with Maggie 1.6QRs. They were almost too revealing.

Believe it or not, I have settled on a low end Parasound and have no desire to upgrade.

i'd venture to guess that it was your maggies that were revealing whatever you didn't like