[daveshel]

Frank, I love it when you scoff at the snake-oil guys, but I'm wondering if you might reacp your recommendations for interconnects and speaker cables.

[avahifi]

Wire recommendations:

If you paid more for speaker wires and interconnects than you would have at Radio Shack, you screwed yourself.

Actually, Home Depot is ever a better source.

Frank Van Alstine

[justpoor]

I dont know about this Frank.  I have to disagree with you on this.

[Tweaker]

Oh my God, here we go again. This discussion can't help but rear it's ugly head every so often and the results never vary.

[ajzepp]

Just out of curiosity, how does that viewpoint impact the internal wiring of a Van Alstine product??

[boead]

Just out of curiosity, how does that viewpoint impact the internal wiring of a Van Alstine product??

who said it did?

[ajzepp]

Just out of curiosity, how does that viewpoint impact the internal wiring of a Van Alstine product??

who said it did?

Ummmm....nobody. That's why I'm asking the question  

[Russell Dawkins]

FWIW, Rupert Neve, the designer of probably the most universally respected mixing boards in recording in the last 40 years, and still going strong, is on record as saying, when questioned about the wire he used in his famous old consoles, that he used to nip down to the local dump and see what he could scrounge there. This revelation was preceded by chuckles, since the "sound of wire" was a fairly new consideration at the time of the interview (around 1990, I think). The subject was as contentious and emotional then as it is now.

Most good Engineers I know (and the capital E is significant) still snort at the idea that anything matters beyond capacitance, resistance, inductance and shielding and go slightly ballistic at the notion of directionality.

 This includes Bob Speiden, who makes one, if not *the* finest ribbon microphone in the world.

I try always to keep an open mind, but I must say my synapses start synapping when I try to wrap my head around the notion of a $600 power cord in line with loomex (house wiring).

Shocking, ain't it.

[skrivis]

Wire recommendations:

If you paid more for speaker wires and interconnects than you would have at Radio Shack, you screwed yourself.

Actually, Home Depot is ever a better source.

Frank Van Alstine

Parts Express has some good RCA-RCA cables, and good speaker cable too. They're cheaper than Rat Shack, although you have to add in shipping. (Don't accept their offer of a free catalog with your shipment. It will bump your shipping charges up a lot since they send you several pounds of "free" catalogs and pamphlets.)

[avahifi]

A few of you "old timers" might remember Robert Fulton and his famous speakers inculding the pretty awesome Fulton Model J modular system. It was considered by many to be an absolutely world class speaker at the time.

I once ran across him at a salvage store called the "Axe Man" in St. Paul scrounging for parts.  Now while I was looking to see if they had a few speciality resistors in values I was short term out of and had long lead times for replacements, Bob Fulton was actually looking for excess inventory Ford car starter solonoids of a certain type.  He bought them by the bushel basket, took them home, broke them open, removed the magnetic plunger, and wired them in series to obtain the right inductor values for the Model J crossovers.

Now go ahead and ask me about our internal wiring.  

Actually is is Dearborn DEA 1007-20-1 series tinned copper 20 gauge wire for most of the internal small signal wiring and Dearborn 1015-18-16-OT 18 gauge tinned stranded wire for the heavier stuff, with some JUD3317-14-19-5P 14 gauge stranded for ground connections where a very low impedance is required.

Next question?

Frank Van Alstine

[ricmon]

How dose the field of material science come into play on this issue of wire and their effect on sound/performance in audio equipment?

[skrivis]

How dose the field of material science come into play on this issue of wire and their effect on sound/performance in audio equipment?

Far less than some would have you think.

Hey, I just noticed that all of the copper coming off the MUX for our SONET ring doesn't use Cardas cable for all those T-1s. Maybe I should suggest ATT get out here and wire everything with long-crystal silver wire so the data flows better?

[ajzepp]

Next question?

Frank Van Alstine

I've got one....

How much asss does your 3-channel Omega EX amp kick?

[ricmon]

How dose the field of material science come into play on this issue of wire and their effect on sound/performance in audio equipment?

Far less than some would have you think.

Hey, I just noticed that all of the copper coming off the MUX for our SONET ring doesn't use Cardas cable for all those T-1s. Maybe I should suggest ATT get out here and wire everything with long-crystal silver wire so the data flows better?

Try untwisting your cat5 cable.

[daveshel]

A few of you "old timers" might remember Robert Fulton and his famous speakers inculding the pretty awesome Fulton Model J modular system. It was considered by many to be an absolutely world class speaker at the time.
...
Next question?

Back to the first question. Whether I get wire from rat Shack or the city dump (Parts Express was what I had in mind), is it worth it to spend more on, say 13ga speaker wire instead of 18? And I have a ton of plain old generic RCA cables - the ones that come with mass marketed components. Is it worth while to spend more and get something better than these?

[Tweaker]

Why don't you just try some and find out for yourself? Most audio dealers will let you take  them home to audition and internet dealers like Mapleshade, and The Audio Advisor, to name just a couple, usually have  generous return policies. Then if you can't hear any improvement it is not because someone said you can't, it's because you found out for yourself.

[warnerwh]

Daveshel: Sometimes having shielded interconnects can help keep noise down especially if you have any running near a power cable. Speaker cable of 18ga is fine but 12 or 14 gauge wouldn't hurt anything and because it's cheap I use it.  If your runs are long then definitely 18 gauge can cause some small losses.  

The reasons I wouldn't use the interconnects that come with mass fi gear is because for one they're not shielded. For two they are very poorly made and tend to get stressed and you lose having a connection at all.  There Canare on Ebay that's pretty cheap. Also Canare speaker cable 4s11 can be bought for 63 cents a foot.  You'll have to put on some spades or bananas probably. If you have holes in your binding posts then bare wire will work but I'd tin the ends.

I've got a very expensive and revealing stereo. My point is that wire is of so little importance when it comes to sound quality that it's a waste and use inexpensive cables in my own system.  

Here's the best advice I can offer: LEARN about room acoustics and how to treat them. This will give you better sound than you probably know.  A stereo say that costs about 2k can easily sound better than one that costs 5k if the room that the 2k one is better acoustically.  This is a very common error among audiophiles.  They keep changing equipment and never get the sound they want because of their room's acoustics. Millions of dollars are no doubt spent in ignorance.

Before you upgrade anything the first place you should consider is your room and upgrading it's acoustics. I promise you that I'm right.

[Russell Dawkins]

"Back to the first question. Whether I get wire from rat Shack or the city dump (Parts Express was what I had in mind), is it worth it to spend more on, say 13ga speaker wire instead of 18? "

... I would say probably, especially if you *are* talking about 13 and 18 gauge and your runs are anything more than 8' ...

"And I have a ton of plain old generic RCA cables - the ones that come with mass marketed components. Is it worth while to spend more and get something better than these?"

... I would say yes, only a little more ... but I would source some reasonable RCA ends and make them myself, using microphone cable and grounding the shield at one end. Then take some of the money you saved and buy some contact cleaner, like Caig Pro Gold or DeOxit. Take the rest and put it into room treatment. Then, after you've saved some money from wanting to stay home to listen to music and not going out and blowing it in restaurants, buy better speakers and work up the chain backwards; speakers, amp, preamp, source.

[Occam]

Why don't you just try some and find out for yourself? Most audio dealers will let you take  them home to audition and internet like dealers like Mapleshade, and The Audio Advisor, to name just a couple, usually have  generous return policies. Then if you can't hear any improvement it is not because someone said you can't, it's because you found out for yourself.

Great post!!! But its so much easier to let others shape your opinions......

[WEEZ]

It seems to me that the best wires to use are ones that damage the signal the least... :  If you're satisfied that you're hearing all of the music and not the wires; you're done shopping for cables!

(I've gone on record on these boards before admitting that wires can sound different from one another- but in my experience the differences are not always 'improvements'..just 'differences'. And subtle, at that. )

I whole-heartedly agree with warnerwh that room acoustics are way ahead in the food chain compared to wires. Even if you can't use 'traps' in your room (due to WAF, etc.) the placement of your speakers is important. Move 'em around until you get it right. You'll know it when you do...

WEEZ