[Marbles]

I have wonderful digital and wonderful analog front ends, but I find I never want to play CD's and always reach for the LP's.

Since I am recently back into vinyl I was asking myself why that was and really couldn't come up with a good answer  

CD's are certainly easier to play and fast forward etc..

I remember a study about rats, given a choice between a water cocain mixture and a water vitamin mixture, the rats would take the coke until they died.

I almost feel like one of the rats.  There's something addictive about LP's compared to CD's, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

Do you guys have any thoughts on this???

[nathanm]

Is there an age\format relationship in your collection Marbles?  For me my vinyl is generally older music than my CDs, so there is a bit of nostalgia in effect there I think.

Sometimes I think that vinyl made before the dawn of CDs were perhaps handled better in the mastering stage than newer stuff.  I bought some vinyl versions of albums I've had for a long time on CD or cassette and some of them sound nasty.  Perhaps there is a bit of naivete about the quirks of vinyl mastering for younger engineers?  Just a guess.

[Pez]

Do you guys have any thoughts on this???

Yeah because vinyl is better.  Lets face it our society has a way of pretending to move forward, but really we just move to "different". CD is a more user friendly format, that is a given and with your everyday moron who puts a record on a turntable that has a bad cartridge, poor tone arm, joke of a turntable they would, without reserve, say that CD's are better.  It's called blissful ignorance.

[Jay S]

Perhaps the beauty of analog is that the information is recording and reproduced as a continuous flow rather than as discrete samples (e.g. digital) which, by definition, will have "gaps."  SACD has a greater sense of pace and fluidity than CD, just as vinyl has that over SACD.  

There is also no extraneous HF noise in vinyl as there is in digital, which may add to the sense of ease, and maybe to the improved imaging/soundstaging.  The impact of digital noise may be a reason why some people prefer non-oversampling dacs to oversampling dacs.

[John Casler]

I remember a study about rats, given a choice between a water cocain mixture and a water vitamin mixture, the rats would take the coke until they died.

I almost feel like one of the rats. There's something addictive about LP's compared to CD's, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

Can you really die from too much vinyl???

Oh Sh**.

And I thought I would only go deaf

[nature boy]

You can see vinyl spinning on the platter, most CD's you can't.  Something about that circular motion and tonearm moving inward.

NB

[Hantra]

The impact of digital noise may be a reason why some people prefer non-oversampling dacs to oversampling dacs.

You would too if you tried a good one. . .

B

[mgalusha]

I think along the same lines as Jay. What I link most about vinyl is the ease with which the music flows. The continuous waveform vs small discrete block, even very small closely spaced one seems to be the key.

In the past month or so I have been listening primarily to vinyl. Several interesting observations. The first is that I can play records for hours and an nearly always surprised when the side ends. I find I don't want the music to stop. I do find that when listening to digital that I find myself thinking that the CD has gone on for far too long. Perhaps this is becuase of the length of some CD's but I think it's related to fatigue.  

Secondly is the foot tapping/knee bouncing effect. While this is perhaps an overused/misused term, I find it applies very much to my physical and mental state while spinning vinyl. When I attend live performances my leg will start bouncing with the tune. Enough so that my wife will tell me I'm shaking the seats. I told her it used to happen all the time when I was younger when listening to music but rarely now. Since I have been playing mostly vinyl lately I have noticed my stupid leg bouncing along with the tune. Not a conscious act but it certainly caused me to think about the why.

Another side effect of vinyl, solid state electronics seem to sound much better with a vinyl front end than with a digital front end. I suspect this has to do with the fact that a good SS amp is faithfully amplifying all the digital artifacts in the signal. Perhaps this is part of the reason why tube electronics are enjoyed by so many folks. Not sure, but possible.

Mike

[Hantra]

I do find that when listening to digital that I find myself thinking that the CD has gone on for far too long. Perhaps this is becuase of the length of some CD's but I think it's related to fatigue.

Mike:

I don't mean to keep harping on this subject, since I already mentioned it regarding Jay's statement. . . But. . You really need a non-oversampling DAC.  Don't get me wrong, I am hooked on vinyl now, but I never get "fatigue" ever when listening to digital.  I like the dynamics of vinyl better than anything else.  If it were even physically possible to get dynamic range out of a CD, I'd listen exclusively to digital with a non-oversampling filterless DAC.

B

[doug s.]

i never get fatigue listening to cd either, on my oversampling dac.  in fact, since i got, & modded, my art di/o, i have been able to actually *enjoy* digital on my rig for the 1st time!  but, vinyl is still better!  

doug s.

[Jay S]

I hear you.  I was quite tempted to buy the SN tube dac for sale a few weeks ago but I decided not to be impulsive (ironic?) since I have more equipment than I am using at this point.  Well, after I sell a few things I may just pounce on the next SN tube dac that I see for sale used.  

I agree with Mike that a great recording gets your foot to unconsciously start tapping.  I noticed that the SACD layer seemed to have a faster tempo and would get my foot tapping compared to the CD layer.  

By the way, I should be getting my newly upgraded Mensa Plus in a day or two... it will need to be broken in again but I am looking forward to even more liquid sound!    While the DI/O has an oversampling dac, the parts/execution of the Mensa Plus have a very significant impact on the ultimate sound.

[Doc Jr 8156]

Marbles,

I agree about vinyl addictive properties.  What you are describing is exacltly what I'm feeling also, after I went back to vinyl.  I think, and in my honest opinion the most important and the deciding advantage of vinyl over CD is:  CONVINCING PRESENCE.  In vinyl, the artist are "really" in your room.  Compared to the "in your room" presence projected by CDs, in vinyl its more believeable.  Happy listening!

[beat]

I am totally back in to vinyl. I think for me it is just as you have all expressed already..nostalgia, fluidity, lots of detail, etc.. but who can explain this? when I was playing my records one day I noticed that the plant which sits near the woofers was totally shaking around (which I have never seen even the bassiest cds cause) After taking off the grill cloth, I saw the 10" woofers bumping with very low frequency but apparently moving in time with the music. I set the amp to drive my smaller b speakers and the same thing happened. Is there that much difference in the information stored on vinyl as compared to cd?

[Hantra]

Beat. . . You need better isolation. . .  Those are likely ground-borne vibrations. . .

B

[Scott F.]

I have wonderful digital and wonderful analog front ends, but I find I never want to play CD's and always reach for the LP's.

Since I am recently back into vinyl I was asking myself why that was and really couldn't come up with a good answer  

CD's are certainly easier to play and fast forward etc..

Do you guys have any thoughts on this???

I really think the answer is simple. Open up a phono stage and take a look at the components. You've got all of about 12 or so resistors and caps. Open up a DAC and you have what looks like the inside of a cell phone. Chips, more chips and then another chip or two thrown in for good measure.

A phono stage's topology is so much simpler. It's no wonder vinyl sounds better. Don't get me wrong, I like my CD's too. Just not near as much as my vinyl.

[drphoto]

You guys are killing me. I thought I just needed new speakers. Now I gotta have a TT!

[beat]

Hantra,
what do you mean better isolation? speaker isolation? isn't being up on brass cones enough? or are you referring to the TT, in which I say is not a rock solid stand with a 70 lb slab of granite enough? I'm seriously not trying to sound smart @$$ here I'm just trying to find what your angle is. I was under the impression it was just due to frequencies that cds might cut off due to the shortcomings of 16 bit. Dr photo, I concur.

[Rob Babcock]

Sitting the TT on a slab would be enough if the only way you could get feedback was thru the stand.  Unfortunately airborne vibrations enter into the equation too.

Warped records will also exhibit very low freq content, too.  This will often be in time with the music as well.

Of course, you could just be getting really good bass.

Or maybe you just left the window open!

[Wayne1]

Beat,

What you are seeing with your woofer is VERY low frequencies being picked up by the phono cartridge and amplifed greatly. These frequencies are usually not coming from the grooves but are generated from outside sources. They could come from warps in the vinyl, rumble from the motor, people walking around and causing your floor to flex, etc. While Hantra is correct in saying that isolation may help eliminate some of the structure born noise, the best cure would be to use a rumble or subsonic filter.

Quite a few phono stages do have these built in and some have them switchable. They eliminate all noise below 8-10 HZ. This will not affect the bass responce of the music, but it will get rid of the warp and rumble noise, thus freeing up your woofers to cleanly reproduce the music contained in the grooves.

[JoshK]

I have had this problem before as well....it was in my power in my case.