breaking process - what progress expected ?

cynamon · « **on:** 31 Jan 2006, 10:57 am »

I listen to the new IA-7. It plays like 20hrs only. My main concern as far regarding the sound quality is the lack of shine in highs and "life" in mids.
I have hooked up this amp with 5 different speakers and result is still similar. Fantastic dynamics, great control and variety of bass. Good stage.
However much below the expectation is reproduction of mids and highs. Vocals sounds withdrawn and without emotional vibrations. Highs are too delicate and light - big cymbals have no mass and power.
On one hand everything is on the right place, no distortions. On the other hand most of recordings from my collection sounds similar - and I know it should not being happened that way.
I hear sounds - I do not hear the music.

What can I expect when breaking is done ?

moray james · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Feb 2006, 12:57 am »

am not sure but in Poland do you use the two pin (male) power plug as in some other euro countries? if so you can try flipping the plug over so that your live and neutral are reversed. this may help a lot. do amp first then do your source and listen for improvements. time will also probably help matters as well. good luck PS also try out some quality after marker power cords with your amp. regards moray james.

cynamon · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 Feb 2006, 11:09 pm »

mooray james

Thanks for the advice.
I tried flipping the plug over but it was only worse.

Maybe it's simply not my sound. My dealer agreed to take it back.

Cheers

Albireo · « **Reply #3 on:** 7 Feb 2006, 05:33 am »

Quote from: cynamon

On the other hand most of recordings from my collection sounds similar - and I know it should not being happened that way.

I noticed this too with my IA-7, which admittedly only had maybe 40 hours on it (NuForce recommends at least 70, and my dealer says 190 -- exactly

). In the systems I heard it with (Magnepan MG1.6, Dynaudio Audience 52, and while I was at the dealer's, a pair of Von Schweikert LCR-15s, driven variously by a Jolida JD100 or Electrocompaniet ECD-1 DAC) there was a certain emphasized clarity and a fine crystalline grain in the treble that I was told by my dealer would melt away, which I tend to believe because it was drastically reduced towards the end of those 40 hours. I have to confess at this point that I still find the treble a bit cold and a teensy bit crystalline even on the Reference 9s; it is the NuForce's most obvious un-hifi characteristic, in my limited experience. Regardless, the IA-7 had the classic NuForce informative yet preternaturally fatigue-free treble, which made for a very relaxing listen, and I personally found cymbals extremely natural if not outstandingly extended. I agree with your description that the highs were light and delicate rather than extended or ultra-detailed, but I am surprised you found the mids recessed, because I found the opposite to be the case, particularly compared to a Bel Canto 200.2 amp, which is known to be slightly depressed in the mids.

In any event, the total presentation was beguiling in a way only NuForces seem to be able to accomplish: totally coherent from top to bottom, relaxed, dynamic, and utterly realistic. If the purpose of the IA-7 is to give a taste of the better stuff, I think the IA-7 succeeded admirably.

Me? I'm going to wait until I can afford a pair of monoblocks

.

cynamon · « **Reply #4 on:** 7 Feb 2006, 09:20 am »

Hey guys,

It looks like I'm the only one who is not happy with NF amp. I'd like to say I really like the concept of NF, price level, customer service (outstanding!!!). I appreciate the very positive feedback all over the world. That's basically why I decided to have a blind date with IA-7.
Many people mentioned the effortless listening is a part of the joy while listening NF. However for me it was opposite. After each session me and my wife were tired. It could be the lack of synergy with Vienna Acoustics speakers specially, couldn't ?
Is it possible something was wrong with my piece ?

Anyway, I will still look on the NF achievements. I wish all the best for NF team. I am sure one day I meet them again.

rustydoglim · « **Reply #5 on:** 7 Feb 2006, 09:38 am »

cynamon,

I would bet that something is off in your system. Nuforce amp is EXTREMLY revealing. March issue of The Absolute Sound has a summary for Amp of The Year and it said it perfectly. I don't have it with me at the moment so can't post it here.

Nuforce amp will force you to re-examine every part of your system. It brings up everything that is good or bad until you tune your system to perfection and that's where you reach sonic heaven

Check the following:
Do you have AC ground in your house?
If not (you shoudn't use NF until you fix your ground), try connect source device to power conditioner but leave the amp connect to wall directly (or surge protector).
Do not use solid core speaker wire.
Check that your interconnect is grounded and use well shielded cable (don't use magnet wire cable)

avahifi · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Feb 2006, 01:49 pm »

The advice to reverse your AC power cord connections was very bad news for almost all components. By doing this you are defeating the built in safety protection in the unit.

For example, for safe operation, the AC line fuse or breaker is first in line on the hot side, followed by the power switch and transformer. This way the fuse is ahead of all internal components and if in the event of a fault, the fuse or breaker protects everything.

If you reverse the AC line connections, then the fuse comes last, and any fault to ground on any internal component is then not protected.

This risks destroying the equipment, fires, and even killing yourself or your children.

The "reverse the AC connections" is really really really bad bad bad bad advice.

Don't do it!

Frank Van Alstine

rustydoglim · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Feb 2006, 08:35 pm »

That's why we put warning all over the manual to ask customer to make sure they have AC ground. For safty and noise reduction.

The issue for some EU customers is that it is hard to tell which pin is the ground

. And people often reverse them in the first place.
In such situation, customer should use a tester easily availble from hardware store to make sure the ground/neutral pin (in a 2 pin plug) goes to the neutral pin of the 3 pin socket on the amp. We still don't recommend high end audio system to use NuForce amp without AC ground. The RFI will be too high when it can't escape to ground.

Antoine · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Feb 2006, 11:20 pm »

Quote from: nuforce-jason

Do not use solid core speaker wire.

Jason, can you tell us why the NuForce monoblocks don't like this type of speakerwire? What is the preferred type of cable?

rustydoglim · « **Reply #9 on:** 8 Feb 2006, 07:28 am »

Solid core wire has much less surface than braided wire and emit a high amount of RF noise.

skrivis · « **Reply #10 on:** 8 Feb 2006, 05:10 pm »

Quote from: nuforce-jason

Solid core wire has much less surface than braided wire and emit a high amount of RF noise.

So you're saying your amps put out a lot of RF trash?

paul canady · « **Reply #11 on:** 8 Feb 2006, 05:39 pm »

A lot of high end cable companies use solid core wires in there design. Which braided speaker cable is best with these amps? Jason, are you saying a twisted stranded cable is going to be better on these amps? Or maybe you might be saying not to use magnet wire with these. I am a little confused here because my wire consists of 4 each 22ga solid silver wire and it sounds pretty good. I think with these amps a mixture of silver and copper in a 10awg could be very good. Please let us know on the solid speaker wire theory.

By the way, these are still great amps either way.

Antoine · « **Reply #12 on:** 8 Feb 2006, 05:43 pm »

Quote from: skrivis

Quote from: nuforce-jason
Solid core wire has much less surface than braided wire and emit a high amount of RF noise.

So you're saying your amps put out a lot of RF trash?

I also don't understand. As far as I know speaker cables do not emit noise but (as an antenna) they could pick it up of course. Is this what you mean?

rustydoglim · « **Reply #13 on:** 8 Feb 2006, 07:03 pm »

I should say "higher" amount of RFI. Nuforce amp is a switching device with switching power supply so there is naturally more RFI noise. You can call it trash or whatever it is, customers or reviewers who have listened to it know this is one of the best sounding amp in the world

Our advice for minimizing RFI is to avoid using single strand solid core speaker wire (yes, avoid the very thin magnet wire).

skrivis · « **Reply #14 on:** 8 Feb 2006, 07:35 pm »

Quote from: nuforce-jason

I should say "higher" amount of RFI. Nuforce amp is a switching device with switching power supply so there is naturally more RFI noise. You can call it trash or whatever it is, customers or reviewers who have listened to it know this is one of the best sounding amp in the world

Some people like being beaten, but I don't think that's much of a recommendation for it. (There are probably more people in the world who like pain than there are who think your amp is the best, for whatever that's worth.)

If the amp dumps RF into the air and my tweeters, I'd have to say it's not a very attractive product.

Quote

Our advice for minimizing RFI is to avoid using single strand solid core speaker wire (yes, avoid the very thin magnet wire).

You mentioned braided cable. So you're looking for cable with high capacitance?

nuforce-casey · « **Reply #15 on:** 8 Feb 2006, 08:30 pm »

Nuforce amplifier is a switching amplifier, so that's a given. It switches at 500KHZ, and output filter filters out the modulation residue. Regardless, there will be residual high frequency content.

*Edit* - we are referring 'Solid Core' as in Single, Solid Core = 1 conductor.

With a stiff solid core speaker wire, the length of the speaker wire is practically the antenna that will be excited by the output. Standed cable do not behave this way.

We also not aware of any major cable manufacturers currently marketing/ promoting solid core speaker cable, or aware of any direct correlation of high performance as a result of being solid core.

Most speaker cables are stranded, and we are not aware that there is any engineering study that automatically correlates stranded cables = high capacitance.

Antoine · « **Reply #16 on:** 8 Feb 2006, 09:07 pm »

Quote from: Casey

We also not aware of any major cable manufacturers currently marketing/ promoting solid core speaker cable, or aware of any direct correlation of high performance as a result of being solid core.

I think a major respected company marketing/promoting solid core speakercable is Nordost. Maybe it's not solid core but it isn't braided either if I'm not mistaken. I am currently using the Nordost Superflatlines MKII which have sixteen rectangular "solid cores" aligned per cable. Is this the type of cable you advise to avoid too? If so I might have to look for a replacement for these cables (or look for other amps of course

)

A link that describes the cable:

http://www.nordost.com/Cables/speaker-super-flatline.htm

nuforce-casey · « **Reply #17 on:** 8 Feb 2006, 10:42 pm »

Nordost Flatline: 16 conductors per strand = multi-strand

The solid core typically refers to a single conductor per leg . '32 fine solid core copper twisted to form a multiple strand cable ' is just a multistrand wire the way I look at it.

paul canady · « **Reply #18 on:** 9 Feb 2006, 07:33 am »

Sorry, I just misunderstood the single solid core wire part. As long as there are multiple strands of wire then everything is cool. No antenna effect!

Antoine · « **Reply #19 on:** 9 Feb 2006, 08:00 am »

Quote from: Casey

Nordost Flatline: 16 conductors per strand = multi-strand

The solid core typically refers to a single conductor per leg . '32 fine solid core copper twisted to form a multiple strand cable ' is just a multistrand wire the way I look at it.

But that's the "problem", the 16 solid core copper wires in my cable are not twisted, they are aligned in parallel, not touching each other except in de plugs of course. By twisting the cables you make them indeed more able to withstand EM/RFI noise. As I see it in your explanation there's no difference between one single core or 16 cores when they are not twisted, right? So in my cable I would still suffer from the noise excited from the NuForces?