[JohnR]

I've recently become reacquainted with eBay by buying some photographic equipment, and thought I might write some observations on buying and selling there. Comments welcome

Buying

Rule #1. There's always another one.

Rule #2. Don't get into a bidding war.

As I see it, this means there is only one best way to bid: once. If you see an item that has just been listed and you know you want it, bid the maximum you would be prepared to pay for it, and leave it at that. (See rule #1). This works (my theory) because most people tend to bid just above the current price. eBay then tells them they were outbid, and they get discouraged and focus on other items that they are "winning" on.

The other strategy is to bid late. If you do it in the last minute it's called sniping. If you want to snipe properly, figure out how to do it 5 seconds from the end. 5 minutes is gentleman's sniping. You can also put in a low bid in early (that you know will be outbid) in order to show good faith and to put the item in your bidding list, and then snipe in the last five seconds anyway.

Of course you will sometimes run into psychos who seem to be willing to pay anything for a particular item. Avoid these auctions -- see rule #1.

Rule #3. Observe feedback.

If a seller has more than 1% negative feedback or other feedback that indicates that they are less than unbelievably helpful, stay away. It's not worth it. (See also rule #1)

(There is another strategy which is followed by people that buy and then resell on eBay: bid a stupid low price on *everything* and you will get some of them.)


Selling

Rule #1. Talk it up.

Rule #2. Start low.

It seems to me that listings with lots of explanation and (in particular) good photographs tend to go much higher than those with half a line and a fuzzy photo. Don't assume that people know what they are buying -- explain it to them anyway and someone that doesn't know anything will get right in there and bid away. (OTOH if you are a knowledgable buyer a poorly-listed item can be an opportunity.)

If someone sends you a question about the item, answer it so that it is seen by other potential bidders. "Some" bidders ask a question just to see if the seller is responsive. They are testing you.

It's hard, but another observation is that if you start everything at a dollar or ten, it tends to go higher in the end. Every time someone gets outbid, eBay sends them an email urging them to bid again. Plus, your item will show up on their "My eBay" page. This encourages competition between bidders, which is good for a seller. Get more people bidding on your item while the price is low -- the more people with "skin in the game" so to speak, the higher the bidding is likely to go in the end.

To go along with that, no reserves. Reserves tend to discourage bidders.

Well, those are my thoughts.... yours?

[woodsyi]

John,

Good points.  I am a sniper.  I have lost a few bids because I tried to time it to the last second and missed the window.  I always set a budget for the upper limit and bid $11 more than the next incremental round figure if the item is still under budget at the last minute.  I win some and lose some but I am never put out.  I can't stand people who bid up the price days before the close.

[MaxCast]

John,

Good points.  I am a sniper.  I have lost a few bids because I tried to time it to the last second and missed the window.  I always set a budget for the upper limit and bid $11 more than the next incremental round figure if the item is still under budget at the last minute.  I win some and lose some but I am never put out.  I can't stand people who bid up the price days before the close.

Bid $11.26 more...you just never know...

[kfr01]

John,

Good points.  I am a sniper.  I have lost a few bids because I tried to time it to the last second and missed the window.  I always set a budget for the upper limit and bid $11 more than the next incremental round figure if the item is still under budget at the last minute.  I win some and lose some but I am never put out.  I can't stand people who bid up the price days before the close.

The other strategy is to honestly put in the top price you'll be willing to pay.  I frankly rarely see the point of being a sniper.  If the top dollar I'm willing to pay is $500, then I'll often enter $500.  Let someone else snipe if he wants.  If he's below my max, he won't get it.  If he's above, well, then it was above my max anyway.  I have friends that seem to be proud of, "getting it in the last two seconds!"  I don't see the point.  With ebay's auto bidding, if I put a realistic max in, I'll often get it.  

If I really want an item sometimes I bid it up pretty early with my max price.  It effectively sets an early reserve price right out of the gates and scares other bidders away.  I only try this option on items I know will be bid up to at least a certain amount.  If the price is going there anyway, why not scare some of the real bargain hunters away?  When people make a winning bid at any time they tend to get personally attached to the item and get competitive.  If I foreclose them from ever having a winning bid, they'll frequently look elsewhere.

For selling.  Pictures, pictures, pictures.  Take high res pictures of every little nick and scratch.  Clean the item well before placing it on.  Put the item on the floor or clean countertop.  If the item looks new, buyers are willing to pay more.  If you honestly show the defects, buyers are more willing to trust you.

[ooheadsoo]

The other strategy is to honestly put in the top price you'll be willing to pay.  I frankly rarely see the point of being a sniper.  If the top dollar I'm willing to pay is $500, then I'll often enter $500.  Let someone else snipe if he wants.  If he's below my max, he won't get it.  If he's above, well, then it was above my max anyway.  I have friends that seem to be proud of, "getting it in the last two seconds!"  I don't see the point.  With ebay's auto bidding, if I put a realistic max in, I'll often ge ...

The point of sniping is that the price might not go high.  If you bid with your perspective in mind, it'll go as high as someone wants to take it.  For example, the sell himself could go in under a different account and ride you for what you're worth.

Here's what I thought up but don't have the balls to pull off.  Put up a ebay store with buy it now items priced ~$10 more than the lowest otherwise buy it now price.  If someone is dumb enough to buy it from you, go buy it from the lower buy it now price and ship it to your buyer.

[JoshK]

Excellent post John.  My strategy and sentiments exactly.  I use to not play the sniping game, but I do now and it really has been paying off for me.  My wife in fact makes me bid her ebay auctions for her because I am usually quite successful.  

I have to disagree with kfr01.  I think it is nice in theory and can work some of the time, but a lot depends on the type of auction you are bidding on.  For instance, a lot of vintage tubes or tube testers have been going for insane amounts of money.  However, there are still quite a lot of them available on this market and if you are patient can get a good deal.  

If you were to put in your highest amount you are willing to pay, you basically would ensure yourself to never get a good deal on auctions like these.  Everytime I see the bidding go up early on by a few bidders, it looks to me that someone did as kfr suggested and others come in a "peck" to see how high they set their limit.  The price inches up pretty high pretty early on and then nearing the end the bidding gets furious and the ultimate sell prices is sometimes baffling.  Meanwhile, I have often picked off the same or better thing of 1/4 or less of the selling price.  

My point is with this type of auction, the kfr types might ward off the types like me from those auctions, but I don't see the kfr's winning those auctions either.

[kfr01]

The point of sniping is that the price might not go high.  If you bid with your perspective in mind, it'll go as high as someone wants to take it.  For example, the sell himself could go in under a different account and ride you for what you're worth.

True, but I'm finding that as more and more people join ebay the used market is becoming increasingly efficient.  i.e., if the seller uses adequate information and demand for an item is high, finding any "real steals" is pretty tough.  For example, high demand audio goods rarely deviate much from audiogon bluebook.  The market usually decides on a relatively narrow window of price for a high demand good.  Really, after trying sniping and non-sniping many times on ebay, I feel like the result rarely differs enough to justify a late-night last second snipe.  It might feel better because there is a greater sense of gamesmanship, but I don't think the result is often very different.  Moreover, more than a couple times that I've tried to snipe an item, the seller has pulled it and sold to someone that offered some absolute number.  (Sellers get scared when very few bids have been placed a day before the auction end).  Max bidding prevents this from happening.

[kfr01]

I have to disagree with kfr01.  I think it is nice in theory and can work some of the time, but a lot depends on the type of auction you are bidding on.

I do agree with that.  On low demand items I think sniping makes all the sense in the world.  On high demand items I think final price will fall within a very small window anyway, sniping makes less sense.  

I don't dispute that sniping may lead to better results within the window, but that rarely provides me the motivation to put an auction ending in my appointment book.

[ooheadsoo]

I use an automated sniping service so it's no effort at all for me.  No charge unless I win and the fee is reasonable.  There's just no reason for me not to snipe.  

I think we differ on this - I only ever bid on ebay to get a killer deal.  I'm not remotely interested in market price  For that, I use buy it now

I know this sounds mean, but sometimes when I know that there are people bidding and watching an item I'm also interested in, I go in there and bid the auction all the way to its current max just to see where it stands.  I know that there are people who think like you do, kfr01, and will take it even higher so I won't be stuck with it in all likelihood.  What can I say?  I'm interested in the sake of knowing for knowledge's sake

[kfr01]

I use an automated sniping service so it's no effort at all for me.  No charge unless I win and the fee is reasonable.  There's just no reason for me not to snipe.  

I think we differ on this - I only ever bid on ebay to get a killer deal.  I'm not remotely interested in market price  For that, I use buy it now

True, I wish more sellers would use buy-it-now.  

If you don't mind, please PM me or post the sniping service you use.    Scheduling is my main complaint with sniping.

[ooheadsoo]

I use auctionsniper.com.  There may be better services, but I don't know because auction sniper has always worked for me.

[JoshK]

I have to disagree with kfr01.  I think it is nice in theory and can work some of the time, but a lot depends on the type of auction you are bidding on.

I do agree with that.  On low demand items I think sniping makes all the sense in the world.  On high demand items I think final price will fall within a very small window anyway, sniping makes less sense.  

I don't dispute that sniping may lead to better results within the window, but that rarely provides me the motivation to put an auction ending in my appointment book.

Well I was referring to vintage triode tube auction, which are very high demand (arguably) but not particularly efficient according to my experience.  

Fair market for a pair of 45's for instance seems to be about $80-100 depending on the condition, whether tested and how closely matched.  Tube resellers usually ask about $140-150/pr.   I have seen many pairs go for around $80-100pr and many go for >$120/pr on ebay and they all seem to start out with people bidding early.  

I have bought about 4 or 5 pairs in the last two months and have gotten many at <$40/pr (same great conditons) by sniping.  I think that is varies by market though, so I think sniping still has its place.  

FWIW, I use Hammersnipe because it is free (up to 3 auctions/week).  It does pester you to sign up for paying service but if you hit the "auction" button on the left side you can still use it for free.

[JohnR]

Automated sniping takes all the fun out of it!

But then again, it sounds like you're getting some good deals...

[nathanm]

eBay can be dang boring.  In my experience there's a little activity up front and at the end, but then there's four straight days of jack squat.  It's actually fun when you know there's a real human on the other end bidding against you and the clock is winding down.  Automated sniping sounds incredibly lame IMO.  Where's the fun in that?  Might as well just buy the thing from a regular store.  An auction should be more about the game of bidding than trying to get the best deal.  I suspect an auction in the real world is more fun.  Maybe in the future eBay will have a computerized voice that speaks extremely fast and you can make bids by nodding your head at some kind of infrared camera or something.

[BradJudy]

I'll give away my prized eBay tips.  

Sell on Fridays

Buy on Sundays

After watching auctions for several items over the years, it seems that bidding for identical items tends to go higher on weekdays (Friday is my pick for timing the end of auctions I'm posting) and bidding is lower on weekends (particularly Sundays).  Of course, I'm sure it's also affected by seasons and events (e.g. auctions ending during the SuperBowl probably aren't watched as closely if their content is popular with football fans).

Obviously, if you're selling, multiple good pictures are a must.  A good description is a must.  If possible, fill in the shipping details so that buyers can calculate shipping costs before bidding.  Using the pre-paid shipping labels that can be printed through eBay/Paypal really makes shipping easier - I have skipped several lines at UPS with pre-paid packages.  And make sure you know how to pack the item properly.  I've seen some pretty poor packing jobs (I have a sad/funny story about someone in front of me at the post office and their packing job).

[ooheadsoo]

ebay functions as a sealed bid auction, if you know how that works - except they try to fleece you by making you reveal your sealed bid early (those of you who actually bid before the auction is over.)

[TheChairGuy]

Good, informative post! - I was on vacation last week (only briefly checked in here) and wasn't able to read thru it.

JohnR, you're now sounding like the marketing/business guy you don't claim to be  

[woodsyi]

Revival of the thread.   I am reminded that I was going to post this question on this thread and forgot.  How frustrating is it when you snipe and win but did not meet the reserve?

[DSK]

Bidding strategies aside, what flabbergasts me is that so many bidders bid as high or even higher than the item can be bought for from a retail outlet. The whole idea of buying on eBay is to get something for less (preferably significantly less) than what you can buy it for elsewhere. I can only assume that these buyers have not done their homework and walk away thinking they've got a great bargain. I see this all the time on computer parts auctions. I don't mind being outbid by someone who knows what an item is worth and is prepared to pay more than me for it, but I hate watching prices being bid up to ridiculously high levels by nuff nuffs who think they're getting a great bargain.    Unfortunately, this can have the flow on effect of pushing up prices on future auctions of the same or similar equipment.    

[orthobiz]

BradJudy previously posted: sell on Fridays, buy on Sundays. I'm selling off my basement junk and this was EXACTLY my question.

Recently, I had a bunch of X10 home automation stuff for sale, had something like 17 watchers, was bid to 32 bucks and then, for five hours, no more activity. The auction ended Sunday dinnertime. I thought it would have gone for about 50 or 60.

Anybody else with tips on which day an auction should end? What about the 3 hour East Coast/West Coast phenomenon?

And for crying out loud, will somebody make me an offer on my Clearaudio Syncro? (last "bump" today in the Trading Post)

Thanks,

biz