Need help re: TACT options...

RDaneel · « **on:** 24 Jan 2006, 05:13 pm »

Hi -

Sorry, new member with a question. I'll research this on the TACT Yahoo group as well, but I'd love non-TACT-owner opinions as well.

I am considering a move from my current setup to one using a TACT 2.0 or 2.0S as a preamp. Right now I run a Audio Alchemy DDS Pro via I2S to a Perpetual Technologies P1/P3/P3B then to an Onix SP3 tube integrated. I like it a lot, and enjoy that I can get SOCS speaker correction software for the next speakers I'm getting.

However, the room configuration is constrained by the fact it's a living room, and it needs to be functional. I've done what I can, but it will never be idea. That is where TACT comes in.

First, is it worth it to dump the Perpetual Tech setup (including the nice ModWright Lv2 P-3A) for the digital processing and DAC in the TACT box? Is RCS worth that?

Second, a used 2.0 is fairly affordable, the 2.0S with the better upsampling (I think) and newer DSPs is far more. As I don't use subs, I don't need a 2.2X, but is the difference in the S model worth the cost differential?

If I go with the TACT setup I may keep the SP3 integrated for now, but would probably move to a straight tube amp setup down the road.

Thanks for any advice or assistance!!!
RDaneel

BradJudy · « **Reply #1 on:** 24 Jan 2006, 07:49 pm »

Welcome to AC, Richard.

I don't have an answer for you (I've heard a DEQX system, but not a TACT one), but I thought I'd say Hi and let the crowd over here know that you're a good guy (not that my word necessarily means much

).

Brad

RDaneel · « **Reply #2 on:** 24 Jan 2006, 09:08 pm »

Quote from: BradJudy

Welcome to AC, Richard.

I don't have an answer for you (I've heard a DEQX system, but not a TACT one), but I thought I'd say Hi and let the crowd over here know that you're a good guy (not that my word necessarily means much ).

Brad

Thanks for the welcome, Brad, I figured I should check AC out after all this time on the other forums... Makes me feel a little dirty that I'm considering a non-SOCS/ROCS room correction system, you know?!?

RichardS · « **Reply #3 on:** 25 Jan 2006, 12:19 am »

When I purchased my Tact 2.2x, I also had a ModWright Sig.2 P-3A/Monolithic, and I compared it to the DAC inside the Tact. The Tact DAC was a little 'cleaner' with more detail, but the PT had better bloom and decay. Same league, though, decision based on preferences. But the addition of Tact room correction was a revelation in my system (and I have a dedicated room). Room correction with the Tact DAC was miles ahead of using my Dodson DAC without it.

However, it was when I changed amps to the Tact amp (replacing a Gamut), keeping the signal digital all the way, that I felt I crossed the point of no return. The Tact 2150 is a great DAC, and quite a good amp, too. Tact is now including room correction with their new amps, and if you don't need or plan to use subs or digital crossovers, I would seriously recommend you look into this option. At the price, it's a steal: digital preamp, DAC, amp and room correction all in one reasonably inexpensive box. All you need is a transport (or squeezebox).

I haven't used the Tact with tube amps so I can't comment here, but I no longer miss my previous tube preamp; nor have I compared the later DSP with the old one, but a friend who owned both thinks the 2.2x (and hence the 2.0s) sounded much better than the 2.0.

Good luck with your decision.

miklorsmith · « **Reply #4 on:** 25 Jan 2006, 12:35 am »

I struggled with this question recently. I decided to go with the 's', because upgrades are full-price from TacT - about $1k for the ADC and DAC boards and another $1k for the motherboard. Then, I decided I need the sub capability and sent it back for the 2.2x.

zybar · « **Reply #5 on:** 25 Jan 2006, 12:41 am »

Quote from: RDaneel

Hi -

Sorry, new member with a question. I'll research this on the TACT Yahoo group as well, but I'd love non-TACT-owner opinions as well.

I am considering a move from my current setup to one using a TACT 2.0 or 2.0S as a preamp. Right now I run a Audio Alchemy DDS Pro via I2S to a Perpetual Technologies P1/P3/P3B then to an Onix SP3 tube integrated. I like it a lot, and enjoy that I can get SOCS speaker correction software for the next speakers I'm getting.

However, the room configuration is c ...

Couple of quick comments:

1. Get the S version as the processing power is much better as is the overall performance.

2. The stock dac is good, but a modified dac by Anthony Padilla is great!

3. To get the absolute most out of your TacT get an upgraded power supply at a minimum form Anthony.

4. Join the Yahoo boards for TacT for lots of great info.

George

ekovalsky · « **Reply #6 on:** 25 Jan 2006, 02:11 am »

Zybar's advice is spot-on.

By the way the original 2150 amps are perfectly capable of implementing crossovers and correction without the RCS, but this does require the use of a PC and third party software, available for free from Dirac.

The new "X" amps cannot perform simultaneous correction and crossover, which was a no-starter for me when deciding whether to keep my 2150s or move to the "X" series. The "X" series can be programmed independently of a computer and apparently has the new "dynamic room correction" -- which adjusts the target curve depending on volume -- and also offers real time verification. While the older TacT gear does not feature real time verification, I can confirm it does work as intended based on measurements made with dual RCS 2.2X units, and also measurements made with the RCS 2.2X when correction is implemented in the amps.

The key limiting factor in the absolute performance of the TacT amps is not the (brilliant) Toccata/TI PCM>PWM conversion technology but the quality of passive parts, integrity of digital signal transmission, and noise isolation. Like most other audio equipment made to a budget, mods can make a huge difference.

RDaneel · « **Reply #7 on:** 25 Jan 2006, 04:22 am »

Excellent, info, thanks. I have signed up for the Yahoo group, just waiting on my registration to come through.

I love my tube gear, but the idea of so much capability in one box is pretty alluring...

I'm getting confused by the various models, which is shocking to me - normally figuring out a model line is simple. It seems like the website is out of date. Now there are S2150X and M2150X models (both with RCS/DRC), but I don't understand the difference between the two. Is it just the master volume control knob? That's an expensive knob!

I'm assuming that the dynamic room correction is just the normal RCS plus the ability to adjust on the fly based on level, and it isn't somehow less capable than the "normal" RCS you have on the 2.0S and 2.2X preamps.

Ok, so here's the million dollar question: why doesn't everyone use this?

I guess that people who want to use their own amp will want the 2.0S rather than an integrated, but I'm a big fan of the integrated option. I'm also not clear on how one configures the 2150 series if it doesn't have a mic preamp like the 2.0S and 2.2X do, but I'm sure I can figure that out.

Thanks again for all the ideas and feedback, I'm pretty sure I need to demo these soon!

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #8 on:** 25 Jan 2006, 04:41 am »

I'm interested in stuff like the Tact, but I can't figure out what to do with an EQ that only works on 2 of the 5 channels.

RDaneel · « **Reply #9 on:** 25 Jan 2006, 05:37 am »

Quote from: Rob Babcock

I'm interested in stuff like the Tact, but I can't figure out what to do with an EQ that only works on 2 of the 5 channels.

I forgot that I misposted this in the "Five-Channel" circle!

Carlman · « **Reply #10 on:** 25 Jan 2006, 02:24 pm »

I hate to be the downer here because TacT gear is very good and I can't live without room correction at this point.

My experience with the 'all-in-one' solution from TacT ended with the impression it 's not ready for customer use. I bought the 2150X and started using it. I waited 2 months for the measuring device to arrive to do room correction. What I got sent was a Boz room correction box that I don't think is the right thing... it was sent to get my correction done... which it did but I wasn't sure if it was right. It didn't sound as good as the preamp/amp combo... and it didn't sound correct, either.

After a few months I gave up on the 2150x because it needed a lot more work and/or a training course on how to interpret the software and manipulate the firmware to get it to work at all and properly. (I never felt like it was working properly.) So, after the 'proof of concept' failed, I decided to go with with a separate preamp and amp.

I had to double my budget to get the same solution with the 2.0RCS and S2150. I'm quite pleased with the sound. I'd like to get the modifications from Anthony but since I spent $3,k more than I'd planned, I have no money left for mods.

My intent is not to completely rub TacT as a company but to warn you of getting too excited about the 2150x. I did not think it was ready for production (or at least wasn't this past November.... and not by my standards). For all I know they could've worked out all the bugs by now. So, be careful what you wish for... and choose wisely.

I'm sure there's more info on the TacT group but I don't like list/group types of posting. I like the BB software like AC.... So, I don't frequent the groups... but maybe there's more info there about updates and what's up...

Good luck,
Carl

RDaneel · « **Reply #11 on:** 25 Jan 2006, 03:11 pm »

Thanks, Carl, I'd rather have cold water poured on my enthusiasm at this point than after my purchase!

I agree that the documentation for the 2150 doesn't do a lot in terms of explaining setup. From the webiste, I can gather that the Boz box might be the right mic preamp to allow the RCS to work, but that's not at all an intuitive solution like the 2.0S/2.2X. Plus, if you move furniture, change speakers, etc., you'd have to get the box and remeasure.

Thanks again for the thoughts... I'll try and talk to some other 2150X users to see if TACT has improved anything...

OBF · « **Reply #12 on:** 26 Jan 2006, 04:22 pm »

If someone really wants the all-in-one solution I wonder if the best bet isn't to wait for the Lyngdorf room correction card to be released for their integrated. It sounds like it should be superior to the TacT in every way but price. A used 2.0S and competent amp should be much cheaper though.

RDaneel · « **Reply #13 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 01:55 am »

If the Lyngdorf will be more expensive than a 2.0S and amp, it's probably out of my range...

Also, Carl, I might be mixed up on this, but I'm told by a reseller that one of the M2150X models has, in one of the card slots, a mic preamp card, so you can do the semi-automated setup the same way you would with the 2.2X. Hopefully that will alleviate some of the setup problems... I'll try and find out more about that model.

Carlman · « **Reply #14 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 04:11 am »

Please find out more RD... Like I said, they may well have fixed the issues... but I was quite dissapointed with it all a couple months ago.... I too have heard they've come out with 2 more versions since I last dealt with it.

I like the 'old school' method of doing the room correction at this point. I'd have to see the new stuff to see whether I like what they're doing now.

-C

ekovalsky · « **Reply #15 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 04:37 am »

Personally I'd stick with the old 2150 (buy one used) and get it modded, and pair with a 2.0S or 2.2X with at least the power supply upgrade.

TacT's software for the amplifiers has "issues". Best solution is to not use it at all. Download free TACS software which is nearly bug free, feature completely, and vastly more powerful. And it only works with the old 2150s. It can provide room correction, EQ, and correction simultaneously which the new ampps cannot!

RDaneel · « **Reply #16 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 12:52 pm »

I didn't realize that the amps and pre-amps had different software... I'm also confused by ekovalsky's comment that the M2150XDM can't do RCS and EQ at the time time, which is what I thought it was designed to do. I don't know why, but I think I assumed that the new 2150 (with XDM mic input card) was pretty much a whole 2.0S crammed in the same box with the digital amps.

I think I'll call TACT later today and see if I can find out the scoop. We're both located in NJ, heck, I'd stop by their location if it would help me figure all this out!

CornellAlum · « **Reply #17 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 02:30 pm »

I think I am going to be buying a 2150s in the near future, but I have yet to see many comments as to what it sounds like. I surmise it is probably similar to the panny xr-45 but better, seeing as they use the same equibit technology. Can anyone comment as to what the unit sounds like, and also the differences between the s and m models.

Thanks!

RDaneel · « **Reply #18 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 03:12 pm »

My understanding on the S(lave) and M(aster) models is that the M has the master control knob, whereas the S model is designed for use with a TacT pre-amp that has the knob. I think it's a $500 knob... but someone please correct me if I'm wrong!

zybar · « **Reply #19 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 03:58 pm »

Quote from: CornellAlum

I think I am going to be buying a 2150s in the near future, but I have yet to see many comments as to what it sounds like. I surmise it is probably similar to the panny xr-45 but better, seeing as they use the same equibit technology. Can anyone comment as to what the unit sounds like, and also the differences between the s and m models.

Thanks!

I use a Panny x-45 in my living room for tv watching and I had a pair of S2150 amps in for audition in my main system a few months back.

They two don't sound similar nor would I say they are in the same class in terms of performance.

I would be very hesitant to say just because two amps use the same technology that they would sound similar.

I would wait for Eric or maybe Carl to chime in about what the amps sound like as they own them and like them.

George