[alpha_03]

Howdy fellas, I have an odd, but, interesting question for you, here goes.

I needed a phono section for my old tried and true Thorens TD-318 after I finally found a replacement needle for my Shure Ultra 500 cart, since my B&K doesnt have a phono section, I thought well, lets give my Van Alstine Super Pas 3 a shot- I did.

Here is the catch, I pluged the VA SP3 "outputs" into my B&K's "TV" source, and then pluged the Thorens into the VA SP3, and then turned the volume to just past half way, and, viola, instant phono section, with remote control, tube midrange, a very odd set up to my thinking, which BTW, sounds very good.

My question is: can this hurt either pre-amp? It seems to be working very good, and has for the last three days, but I am concerned that I might fry something- any help?

[skrivis]

Howdy fellas, I have an odd, but, interesting question for you, here goes.

I needed a phono section for my old tried and true Thorens TD-318 after I finally found a replacement needle for my Shure Ultra 500 cart, since my B&K doesnt have a phono section, I thought well, lets give my Van Alstine Super Pas 3 a shot- I did.

Here is the catch, I pluged the VA SP3 "outputs" into my B&K's "TV" source, and then pluged the Thorens into the VA SP3, and then turned the volume to just past half way, and, viola,  ...

I've done something similar, but I used the tape out of the other preamp into a line level input. (My SuperPAS and T2 preamps have phono section; while my OmegaStar does not.)

I don't see that you will harm either preamp doing this.

I'd suggest using the tape out from the Super PAS 3, since it is before the volume pot.

[avahifi]

Agreed, simply use the Tape outputs as these are ahead of the volume control and the line section.

Frank Van Alstine

[alpha_03]

thanks guys!!!! will do as you suggested.

on a side- I noticed that with the VA SP3 added to the mix that I can push both amps to full power now, and wow what a difference, obviously the additional voltage increase has over came the impedence problem I was having when running both amps and just the B&K. I must say it sounds very nice. Any idea on the output voltage of the SP3?

BTW, I am curious, what, if any is the required warm up time for an SP3? Seems the warmer it gets the better it sounds (about 20 mins, and my SP3 has new tubes in it, a mullard in the rectifier stage, the other 4 are Ruby tubes I believe), I have been told this is true with most tube gear, why is this?

Thank you

[avahifi]

I would suggest that the old Super Pas is about 95 percent there in a minute, but it will get better and better over about 30 minutes as all of the high voltage capacitors charge to their final values completely.

With vacuum tube equipment, you are charging all the parts up to 200 volts or more, with solid state, the preamps to maybe 15 volts, amplifiers to less than 100 volts.  Thus it is not unreasonable to expect that tube equipment will have a bit more warm up time.

By the way, do not leave the equipment on all the time, you are simply wasting energy and eating up the service life of the parts.

The only equipment that needs to be left on all the time is really unstable flacky designs and the old vacuum tube computers of World War II days that used thousands of tubes.  Then an off and on cycle would almost always cause a tube failure somewhere, and finding it among the thousands of other tubes was a real bear of a problem, especially when they could not afford down time at all.  The Oak Ridge gassious diffusion plants in Tennessee used 15 percent of all the electricity produced in the USA at the time, so a few more watts to leave the computer always on was not much of an issue.

By the way, my dad ran the school system for the Oak Ridge facility during WWII and I grew up there.  By the time we moved on, I had one amazing  hillbilly slang.  We moved to Milwaukee and they first put me (about age 9) in the special ed class for dummies after hearing me talk.  

One interesting thought about Oak Ridge and WWII. All over the USA war weapons plants were turning out lines of tanks, planes, ships, shells, etc.  At Oak Ridge, train loads of materials came in, but NOTHING came out.  Really wierd for the thousands who worked there.  By the end of the war, the total output of Oak Ridge was just enough weapons grade Uranium to produce one atomic bomb, just a few pounds of material.  That was from miles and miles of plants built in the many low valleys there.  Boy did that have a bad effect on morale there.  All the work and they were not producing anything.  My dad thought they were working on a death ray.  We did not know until they dropped the thing on Japan.

Oh well.

Frank Van Alstine

[avahifi]

One other thought on the Super Pas Three phono section. Its a 25 + year old design and is really obsolete in comparison as to what we can do now.

Doing something really simple, just as running it from a 275V regulated power supply with appropriate changes to the necessary circuit parts, makes a day and night improvement to its performance.  Too bad it can't be done in the Dyna PAS chassis, not enough headroom in the power transformer.

However, this, among a bunch of other things, have been done in the new T8 and Ultra preamps, and they have phono sections that will get your attention right now.

Frank Van Alstine

[alpha_03]

Heh, now that is some history. I enjoyed that very much, esp. since I am a WWII buff, and many of my family members served in various fashions at that time. LOL, my Grand Mother was a ship welder, and my Grand Dad was a submariner.

My pops served in Korea, as did many of my uncles (at the same time no less in the same MC unit) I sometimes look at my pops MC bootcamp book and wonder, how it is that America has so drastically changed in such a short time- makes me kinda sad.

Small world.

BTW, I saw somewhere that you drive an Audi, (a German car) might I ask, is it an A6 B/T? The reason I ask is that I repair Audi's (and others) for a living. If, by chance, you should ever have a question regarding such, let me know, not to mention I have manufactured several tools that greatly simplify turbo removing and repair on the A6/A4's. Possibly, is your's an R series?

I also have many parts for the above car line that are very expensive that I hold on to for a few select friends of mine- (road track racing nuts).

The 2002/3 Audi A6 Bi-Turbo is one of my favorite production cars and is highly under rated here in the USA. I have had that particular automoblie to 170mph in stock form with a scanner attached to prevent rpm drop out (defeat the rpm limiter).  As well, the TT 3.2 will easily perform nearly as well, and the 1.8L turbo will run to 140mph with little effort (TT).

German cars - esp. Porsche, are the sh~t, w/o a doubt - that is to say, in todays age. Im a drag racer at heart, so the road race thing has never took with me.

As for the pre-amp, I understand, and I thank you for your suggestions, however, that pre is a tad out of my price range at the moment (T-Eight), perhaps after tax time, I will have to wait and see. After all, if I am to buy such an Item I would want the full featured unit and that adds to the over-all price.

Not to mention, I would make the drive up north to hear it first, and, meet the man who designed it too.

Again, thank you.

Alpha_03

[alpha_03]

Opps, I almost forgot- I wonder how Thiels sound on VA gear with the above discussion as a consideration? Like minds? Or, not?

[avahifi]

Speaker of cars, a favorite subject of mine:

I own a 2002 Audi Avant S6.  Its got a 340 hp V8 redlined at 8000 rpm and top speed is electronically limited at 156 mph on USA models (German production can hit 181 mph  - - -  very low drag body shape).  I have only managed 135 mph or so here, darn speed limits anyway  .

Its got the guts and handling of a sports car and still has the interior room to haul a big load of trash to the dump.    

Nobody notices it, especially the cops.  I came up fast behind a red Porsche one day on a long freeway curve, and around the curve the other way came the speed cop, radar on.  His blinking lights came on and he u-turned into our side of the freeway, and blew right by me and pulled over the poor red Porsche.  I felt sooooo bad about it.  

Evil Frank  

[skrivis]

German cars - esp. Porsche, are the sh~t, w/o a doubt - that is to say, in todays age. Im a drag racer at heart, so the road race thing has never took with me.

I've been hearing that German cars have not been very reliable in the past few years.

Personally, when I think of Audi, I think of the Fox, and how I'd rather have any car _but_ an Audi. I know that's ancient history though.

I almost bought a Porsche 356 Rally version when I was in high school and still kick myself for not buying it. Newer Porsches aren't as tempting for some reason.

I have a friend who has a Mustang GT, and I got to take it for a spin. It's really a very nice car. I certainly wouldn't mind owning one. The '07 Shelby GT 500 should be even better, with 450 HP...

[TomW16]

Hey Frank,

If you would like to clear your conscious, you can always sell a new T7 Ultra preamp very cheaply to someone who would otherwise not be able to afford one.  

I have a person in mind who is in need

Tom

[alpha_03]

HAHAHA, ^^^^ Tom are you Hiway par-tol (pun) here in good ol' Neb? If so, I will have to remember that on my next trip to Lincoln~ heh.

But yea, LOL, thanks a T7 ultra would certainly be very nice indeed.  :~)

I will tell ya, be very warry of the TT, it's a sleeper, it's basically a poor mans Porsche, even the 1.8L Turbo will raise any hots rod road racers eye brow, and p~ss them off to no end. Then when you pop the hood and show them your 1.8L Turbo that was just flying by them at 140mph, LOL, the guy usually just walks away. heh.      

It's very funny to see an Audi Quatro pull a hill that some SUV's cant do, I get a kick out of that every time I see it. Or for that matter a 450HP Porsche SUV, that weighs in at near 7000lbs doing 160 down the Hi-way.

My first Porsche ride/drive was with a buddy of mine many years back and I went on a test drive one day in a Porsche 911 twin turbo, and when he put it in to a hair pin corner at 140 and the body didnt even roll, I was, to say the least, impressed. I have driven about every performance car ever made, worked on most - and my favorites are one of three- 427 Vette, for sheer power, Lamborginni Countache (spl?) and just about ANY Porshce, with the A6/4 RS turbo tossed in there.

I have amplifiers, engine parts, drive line parts (both front axles for your car Frank if its an automatic) I have a set of 18" tires-  Pilot VR's that have 17 miles on them (a few very minor nicks that are only cosmetic)- LOL a funny story involves these tires- one of our sales people was on a test drive when the customer wrecked a brand new yellow Audi TT RS 3.2L convertable (60k car) in the Hi end area of my town. Needless to say, I eneded up with both tires and rims and center caps, amongst other parts.

Like I said, if you (or anyone) ever need advice concerning Porsche, Audi, Chrysler, Ford ~ L/M, VW, or Honda, or racing the Small and BB chevy engines- let me know- I have been at this for 25+ years and I might just be able to help.

Cheers,

Alpha

[TomW16]

HAHAHA, ^^^^ Tom are you Hiway par-tol (pun) here in good ol' Neb? If so, I will have to remember that on my next trip to Lincoln~ heh.quote]

I am pharmaceutical Project Manager here in Nebraska who drove a red Porche until I was unjustly pulled over   (kidding about the Porche part).  There does seem to be, however, an inordinant amount of police officers for the population of Lincoln.  I unwillingly contributed to the annual Policemen's ball just a few weeks ago  

A T7 pre would certainly be nice.  I had to make a difficult decision to go with either a 350 EXR or a T7 SLR as I couldn't afford both and finally decided to go with the 350 EXR and a passive pre, which turned out to be an excellent sounding combination since the input impedance of the amp is around 1 MegaHz.

Tom