I need imaging help for an "L" shaped room..

Marbles · « **on:** 15 Jan 2006, 07:43 pm »

I have my speakers in the bottom of the "L"..that is one speaker has a LOT of room to it's side and the imaging on that side is VERY wide and deep.

The other speaker is about 2 feet from the brick fireplace wall. I have 4" of Foam by mail, and another 4" of Aurelex foam over that. That helps the imaging, but it's not anything like what I get from the other speaker.

Do I need some fiberglass type obsorber? A diffusor? Something else?

This is in a basement.

Thanks for your suggestions.

warnerwh · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 Jan 2006, 08:31 pm »

First I'd get the best bass absorption in that corner I could then I'd try the Behringer DEQ 2496 and run the auto eq separately for each side. It sounds as though it's well treated but at low frequencies which will go right through anything but a very good bass trap will certainly throw things off. This is where a quality commercial product would shine. The diy types we use aren't as effective.

The hard way of course is to build a wall so your speakers would be positioned symetrically.

Marbles · « **Reply #2 on:** 15 Jan 2006, 08:42 pm »

Thanks Warner.

I do have 2 SVS subs about 3 feet in back of the speaker in that corner. They are about 39" h by 16" in diameter. I was hoping that they would act as bass obsorbers. There is an 8th Nerve response controler going up that corner above the subs, and 8th nerve corners in every corner.

I wonder if GIK or Realtraps would work better than the foam, or even to the side or in back of the speaker?

Ethan Winer · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 Jan 2006, 09:54 pm »

Marbles,

> I do have 2 SVS subs <

Wow, I'm jealous. I just got an SVS PB12/2, but only one. It is absolutely slamming. Outrageous even.

> I wonder if GIK or Realtraps would work better than the foam <

You bet. Especially compared to the Foam by Mail stuff which has been proven to not perform as well as the vendor claims.

But your bigger problem is the lack of symmetry. The good news is that an opening on one side can be at least partially balanced by having full absorption the same size on the opposing wall. If there's no chance to rearrange your setup, adding high-performance absorption is your best second choice.

--Ethan

Marbles · « **Reply #4 on:** 15 Jan 2006, 10:06 pm »

Thanks Ethan.

Marbles · « **Reply #5 on:** 20 Jan 2006, 09:17 pm »

I placed an order with GIK on Monday and at 8:30 this AM FEDEX dropped off two big boxes.

I set up 4 2' x4' x 4" thick panels in the room. 1 in the front right corner above my subs, 2 beside my right speaker, and one in back of the room from the ceiling hanging down to the chair rail. I removed all the previous foam in the room.

The sound is MUCH more symetric now. Bass is much clearer, soundstage is deeper. The room seems quieter. All in all it is a major upgrade to what I had.

I spoke to Glen at GIK and he let me know of a new product called the Bass Monster. It is 7" thick and has some very serious obsorption ratings.

I placed an order for 2 of these 2' x 4' panels and hope to have them in a week.

Anyway, as has been mentioned repeatedly, room correction is generally money VERY well spent.

Foam by mail is a sucky product and is not recommended. Auralex is pretty good.

GIKacoustic is VERY good and in my case has very high WAF compared to the foam.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #6 on:** 20 Jan 2006, 09:35 pm »

Which GIK products did you try? Do you have a link?

Marbles · « **Reply #7 on:** 20 Jan 2006, 09:51 pm »

I have the 244. http://www.gikacoustics.com/

I'm not sure he has any info on the 247 (bass monster) yet.

Introductory on the bass monster is $109 each plus $28 shipping to me, shipping might be different for others.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 Jan 2006, 03:33 am »

Cool. I'll have to read up on them.

zybar · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 Jan 2006, 03:43 am »

Interesting...

Much cheaper in price than RealTraps products, but with "similar" published data.

Wonder about the results...

Maybe I will have to get in some of the GIK products and compare?

George

Marbles · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 Jan 2006, 03:48 am »

Quote from: zybar

Interesting...

Much cheaper in price than RealTraps products, but with "similar" published data.

Wonder about the results...

Maybe I will have to get in some of the GIK products and compare?

George

I think that would be a WONDERFUL idea.

Let us know how it works out. Glen has been super to work with.

ryno · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 Jan 2006, 04:08 am »

How did you mount the GIK panels?
I just ordered 3- 2" panels to help with my image problems. I have windows with heavy drapes on the front half of the right wall. The image allways pulls to the left. The next step is bass traps. The 7" look interesting at a great price, but the stand traps from real traps are more decor friendly.
Ryan

Marbles · « **Reply #12 on:** 21 Jan 2006, 04:42 am »

Quote from: ryno

How did you mount the GIK panels?
I just ordered 3- 2" panels to help with my image problems. I have windows with heavy drapes on the front half of the right wall. The image allways pulls to the left. The next step is bass traps. The 7" look interesting at a great price, but the stand traps from real traps are more decor friendly.
Ryan

So far I have had to mount them. The one in the front right corner sits on my 39" subwoofer. The ones to the right of my speaker sit on a raised hearth and under the mantle. The one in the back of the room sits on a very small ledge built into the wall to make the opening to my bar seem like a doorway of sorts. That one fits snug to the ceiling.

The GIK panels do come with eye hooks attached and wire (not attached), and you would hang them like a picture.

Glenn K · « **Reply #13 on:** 21 Jan 2006, 01:40 pm »

Quote from: Marbles

So far I have had to mount them. The one in the front right corner sits on my 39" subwoofer. The ones to the right of my speaker sit on a raised hearth and under the mantle. The one in the back of the room sits on a very small ledge built into the wall to make the opening to my bar seem like a doorway of sorts. That one fits snug to the ceiling.

The GIK panels do come with eye hooks attached and wire (not attached), and you would hang them like a picture.

Sir you rock!
We are hoping to have the monster on the web site real soon. Here are a few number on the Monster trap, from the lab. This is kind of hard to read, but the first number is the frequence the second number is sabins per unit and the third number is the absorption oefficient

I can also email anyone the lab reports as a PDF, just email me at glenn.k@gikacoustics.com.

          The Monster Bass Trap
            Mounted in corners


         Sabins   /   Coefficient
50hz   /      5.06   /   0.63
63   /      10.16718   /   1.27
80   /      23.97018   /   3.00
100   /      18.69531   /   2.34
125   /      16.03005   /   2.00
160   /      14.83462   /   1.85
200   /      15.76   /   1.97
250   /      16.47977   /   2.06
315   /      16.70001   /   2.09
400   /      16.82887   /   2.10
500   /      14.9268   /   1.87
630   /      13.31032   /   1.66
800   /      11.34136   /   1.42
1000   /      9.25368   /   1.16
1250   /      8.04945   /   1.01
1600   /      7.13705   /   0.89
2000   /      7.13705   /   0.89
2500   /      6.63483   /   0.83
3150   /      6.22435   /   0.78
4000   /      6.2129   /   0.78
5000   /      5.81151   /   0.73

      Wall Mounted
Sabins   /   Absorption Coefficient
50hz/   1.46   /   0.18
63/   3.25354   /   0.41
80/   4.52446   /   0.57
100/   7.56871   /   0.95
125/   16.45525   /   2.06
160/   14.11184   /   1.76
200/   16.20953   /   2.03
250/   15.92303   /   1.99
315/   16.66551   /   2.08
400/   17.46593   /   2.18
500/   15.32155   /   1.92
630/   14.05176   /   1.76
800/   12.50539   /   1.56
1000/   10.84612   /   1.36
1250/   9.78454   /   1.22
1600/   8.78007   /   1.10
2000/   8.31903   /   1.04
2500/   7.82578   /   0.98
3150/   7.62539   /   0.95
4000/   7.6723   /   0.96
5000/   7.65318   /   0.96





Glenn

Marbles · « **Reply #14 on:** 21 Jan 2006, 02:12 pm »

Glenn, pretty impressive hitting an obsorption coeffecient of 3.0 at 80HZ

I should have said "So far I have NOT had to mount them"

Speaking of rocking, I've noticed I'm playing my music louder now than before I got your products.

I'm looking forward to getting your Bass Monsters.

Glenn K · « **Reply #15 on:** 21 Jan 2006, 02:32 pm »

Quote from: Marbles

Glenn, pretty impressive hitting an obsorption coeffecient of 3.0 at 80HZ

Speaking of rocking, I've noticed I'm playing my music louder now than before I got your products.

quote]

Are you sure you are not just playing the music louder because of all the teenage kids taking over your house?
All kidding aside it really is people like you that make the pains of company ownership worth it!
I most say that a 3.0 has never happened in the acoustic world as far as I know.. A lot of it is the sides and the membrane of the trap... You can bet this is going to be big talk in the acoustic world for sometime. I am just proud to be the first.

Glenn

ryno · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 Jan 2006, 12:29 am »

Is there anything solid to mount spacers, like rubber speaker feet, to the back of the GIK panels? This would give an air space, but still allow the use of the picture hanging method.
Ryan

Marbles · « **Reply #17 on:** 25 Jan 2006, 02:28 pm »

Quote from: ryno

Is there anything solid to mount spacers, like rubber speaker feet, to the back of the GIK panels? This would give an air space, but still allow the use of the picture hanging method.
Ryan

Ryan, the frame comes out about an inch to an inch and a half behind the ceiling tiles to do what you want. In other words, the 4" models are really about 5.5" thick. There is a frame to mount footers on if you need more space than that.