LOOKING CD PLAYER LIKE VINYL SOUND

Tbadder1 · « **Reply #20 on:** 20 Jan 2006, 05:34 pm »

Buy a Sony, let Modwright get a hold of that puppy and here comes the analogue heaven!

miklorsmith · « **Reply #21 on:** 20 Jan 2006, 05:55 pm »

My Music Hall player is Modwright modded. It has all Dan's goodies except the external PS. IMO, it is far more analog-sounding as a transport to non-OS DAC than using its own output stage.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Dan's and his pre is superb. But, even his wizardry can't undo what oversampling does to the signal re: "analogness".

Tbadder1 · « **Reply #22 on:** 20 Jan 2006, 06:40 pm »

Even with the tube output?

miklorsmith · « **Reply #23 on:** 20 Jan 2006, 06:50 pm »

Yep. The tube stage does add dimension and the player is excellent, don't get me wrong. It's an outstanding player and I'd take it over any other player I've heard. I could see how some people would prefer it and of course it's all system-dependent. A system needing more life and sparkle could benefit hugely by such a player.

But in what I would consider to be "analog" properties, it's really not close to either the Red Wine Audio Monica-2 or the dAck! 2.0 that I have in-house. The Monica doesn't have a digital edge anywhere that I can find. The dAck is more toward the OS sound, with better extension and definition at the edges. In my main system, I prefer the dAck!, while my livingroom system is better with the Monica. Either is an exemplary value and a huge step forward in analog sound.

skrivis · « **Reply #24 on:** 3 Feb 2006, 05:59 pm »

Quote from: Scott F.

As for digital sounding like vinyl, I'm afraid we are all out of luck there. Nothing sounds like vinyl. You get (sort of) close but digital doesn't seem to have the same 'natural' presentation. Much of that has to do with the state of recording studio production.

Just add some compression, roll off the low end, add some distortion in the treble range, add some crosstalk and some phase distortion - CD becomes just like vinyl!

Pops and ticks on records appear mostly as mono signals, so it should be possible to extract that, add some white for hiss, and mix the result into the CD output.

Just adding a bunch of phase distortion is probably enough to give digital that "open sound" that vinyl is supposed to have.

skrivis · « **Reply #25 on:** 3 Feb 2006, 06:03 pm »

Quote from: miklorsmith

Yep. The tube stage does add dimension and the player is excellent, don't get me wrong. It's an outstanding player and I'd take it over any other player I've heard. I could see how some people would prefer it and of course it's all system-dependent. A system needing more life and sparkle could benefit hugely by such a player.

But in what I would consider to be "analog" properties, it's really not close to either the Red Wine Audio Monica-2 or the dAck! 2.0 that I have in-house. The Monica doesn't ha ...

Why is PWM a good thing in "digital" amplifiers and PCM a bad thing in recording/playback? Either way, the signal gets sliced and diced and then reassembled.

Mathew_M · « **Reply #26 on:** 3 Feb 2006, 06:25 pm »

Quote from: skrivis

Just add some compression, roll off the low end, add some distortion in the treble range, add some crosstalk and some phase distortion - CD becomes just like vinyl!

No it's a lot more than that. Digital can actually beat vinyl when it comes to smoothness with low jitter devices like the Squeezebox. However as soon as I think digital is the best I listen to some well recorded vinyl and it just totally blows me away. Like Scott said, there's a certain naturalness with vinyl that just doesn't compare. For example horns, the skin of drums and cymbals sound real when well recorded and played back with vinyl. I can't say the same about even the best digital playback. Also with my speakers (VMPS 626R) there's a bigger more direct sound with vinyl. This is all based on my limited audiophile experience.

WEEZ · « **Reply #27 on:** 3 Feb 2006, 08:08 pm »

.."sliced and diced and then reassembled".

That is the very reason that digital will never sound as natural as analog.

As for the original poster's question; try to listen to a CEC CD-3300.

WEEZ

skrivis · « **Reply #28 on:** 3 Feb 2006, 08:12 pm »

Quote from: Mathew_M

No it's a lot more than that. Digital can actually beat vinyl when it comes to smoothness with low jitter devices like the Squeezebox. However as soon as I think digital is the best I listen to some well recorded vinyl and it just totally blows me away. Like Scott said, there's a certain naturalness with vinyl that just doesn't compare. For example horns, the skin of drums and cymbals sound real when well recorded and played back with vinyl. I can't say the same about even the best digital playb ...

You mention a "bigger, more direct sound." I submit that's phase distortion.

skrivis · « **Reply #29 on:** 3 Feb 2006, 08:35 pm »

Quote from: WEEZ

.."sliced and diced and then reassembled".

That is the very reason that digital will never sound as natural as analog.

WEEZ

Vinyl is so flawed that it's a joke.

You may like the extra distortion, but it's not accuracy that you like.

The very best of analog magnetic tape comes much, much closer than vinyl, and maybe we get into the realm of splitting hairs as to which is better, but I think it's still possible to do better with digital.

I'm not claiming that CD means "perfect sound forever," like they originally touted, but they sure beat the two tin cans and a piece of string approach of vinyl.

WEEZ · « **Reply #30 on:** 3 Feb 2006, 10:15 pm »

Russellcc · « **Reply #31 on:** 4 Feb 2006, 04:56 pm »

Quote from: skrivis

Just add some compression, roll off the low end, add some distortion in the treble range, add some crosstalk and some phase distortion - CD becomes just like vinyl!

Pops and ticks on records appear mostly as mono signals, so it should be possible to extract that, add some white for hiss, and mix the result into the CD output.

Just adding a bunch of phase distortion is probably enough to give digital that "open sound" that vinyl is supposed to have.

I find all those things already in digital playback! If you think cd isnt flawed you would be incorrect. Vinyl is far from perfect as well, just in my and others opinion, FAR superior to CD sound. To my ears, cds are pathetic, but this is just my (and many others) opinions. I will say that I feel cheap cd players sound better than cheap vinyl platback, but beyond that I find the opposite to be so true. Obviously to you, this is not the case. Not my problem! To each, their own, we all have our preferences, not a thing wrong with that, otherwise we would all have the same opinion. Strange how so many people want there digital play back to "sound like analog"...I have yet to find a post where someone is complaining about wanting their vinyl to sound like digital...ever.

Russellcc

Mathew_M · « **Reply #32 on:** 4 Feb 2006, 06:54 pm »

Quote

You mention a "bigger, more direct sound." I submit that's phase distortion.

Some of it might be. However if it sounds more engaging is that a bad thing? Regardless, that still doesn't account for why certain instruments (drums, cymbals and strings) sound more real with vinyl than with digital.

Mathew_M · « **Reply #33 on:** 4 Feb 2006, 06:59 pm »

Quote from: skrivis

I'm not claiming that CD means "perfect sound forever," like they originally touted, but they sure beat the two tin cans and a piece of string approach of vinyl.

See now you are hyperbolizing.

It seems to me that you are basing all of your judgements on poor vinyl playback. Listen to a good system with some well recorded and mastered vinyl. You might say you have but based on your comments here I would not believe it.

JoshK · « **Reply #34 on:** 4 Feb 2006, 07:20 pm »

I see little point to this thread.... all I see/hear is grinding axes...