LOOKING CD PLAYER LIKE VINYL SOUND

ger56 · « **on:** 14 Jan 2006, 10:28 am »

Hello

May be it is not hte first topic like this .

I search for a cd player playing like my vinyl .

I use a dvd 565 pioneer ( too bright ) , test an xbox ( more like the dvd 565 ) a ps1 sony 1002 ( much better and flat and not as bright ) which is known as a good cd player but unfortuntaly when i compare with my Viniyl even if the dynamic is very good, the singers always have the "sssss" which does not appear with my vinyl system ; this is quiet acceptable for jazz but not for rock etc ....

Any advise ? ; should I go to a tube cd player ?

Folsom · « **Reply #1 on:** 14 Jan 2006, 11:29 am »

Hm what type of DAC? An external DAC might help? Tube components may give you a little more of what you desire in sound.

Better yet lay out your entire setup so people know what you are working with.

ger56 · « **Reply #2 on:** 14 Jan 2006, 11:48 am »

Ok

I have
4 way Jbl speakers : 250 Ti
4 way jbl 4340 in another room ( horn for midrandge )
Carver preamp and french preamp Home made
audio mirror tube 40 w 2 mono + 150watt trasistor for bass ( bi amp )
Empire turntable + 4000 DIII cartridge MM
Thorens td 160 mo + adc tonearm + adc xlm MM

In fcat in one or other system I still have the same problem where the cd gives too much of high medium and "ssssssssss"

regards

Ger56

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #3 on:** 14 Jan 2006, 12:30 pm »

No such thing. The closest you can come is a CD player with tube output stage for each channel.

Cheers
Charlie

thorman · « **Reply #4 on:** 14 Jan 2006, 12:50 pm »

One on the better used purchases in my opinion would be a Meridian 508/24 cd player. If you check all the reviews and feedback,you'll find a long list of satisfied customers that will tell you its about as natural /warm a sound that you can find without losing detail. I purchased a new one many years ago and haven't had the urge to buy anything new since.

JLM · « **Reply #5 on:** 14 Jan 2006, 01:08 pm »

Non-oversampling DACs or PC audio are the most "vinyl-like", but you'll have to add your own dynamic compression, surface noise, pops, clicks, and inconvenience.

ger56 · « **Reply #6 on:** 14 Jan 2006, 01:18 pm »

Thank you for answers

I also would like to know if it is normal to have such a difference between vinyl and cd in sound specially in the voice and 'sssss'

regards

Ger56

Scott F. · « **Reply #7 on:** 14 Jan 2006, 02:08 pm »

I think the issues you mention are caused by your using your DVD player to play CDs. I'd bet the Pioneer has an excessive amount of jittter that is causing the sibliance (hard ssss's and ch's). Your horns (the JBL 4330's) further emphasize the jitter.

You've got quite a few options. You could go for an exteranl DAC. There are quite a few affordable ones on the market geared towards the audiophile. Most all of them do a nice job on one level or another. I'd stear clear of Pro-Sound DACs like the ART/dio unless you plan to have it modded by somebody like Wayne at Bolder. I'm not sure of any guys that do mods over in the UK.

If you watch the pages over at TNT-Audio.com, Geoff Husband is getting ready to review a very affordable, good sounding DAC that can be picked up on eBay.uk for around $100US. You can also send him an email geoff@tnt-audio.com . This DAC should help reduce the jitter problems you are experiencing.

If you don't want to go that route, you can always search out a DAC from some one else in the UK. I'd suggest an Audio Note DAC kit with a few upgrades if you can afford it. Peter Q does a nice job with his non-oversampled DACs. Since they use valves (tubed), you will get some added dynamics you are missing with your stock DVD player.

You other choice is a dedicated CD player. The AH! valved player is a safe choice. I'm sure Herman has a dealer in Germany. If not, you can order direct from him. Personally, I'd recommend the upsampled version.

One last thing that comes to mind is mains conditioning. This is essential for good quality digital. I would invest in a good quality power conditioner or mains filter of you haven't already.

As for digital sounding like vinyl, I'm afraid we are all out of luck there. Nothing sounds like vinyl. You get (sort of) close but digital doesn't seem to have the same 'natural' presentation. Much of that has to do with the state of recording studio production.

I do have to say digital has finally come of age. Quality digital sounds are now very affordable. Not that long ago we had to spend thousands to get that ultra smooth digital reproduction. Now we can have it for under $1k.

Hope that helped.

Marbles · « **Reply #8 on:** 14 Jan 2006, 02:14 pm »

Quote from: Scott F.

As for digital sounding like vinyl, I'm afraid we are all out of luck there. Nothing sounds like vinyl. You get (sort of) close but digital doesn't seem to have the same 'natural' presentation. Musch of that has to do with the state of recording studio production.
...

Scott, using my computer as a source to an EA I2S Turbo OFF Ramp to an EA modded P3a dac, I am getting vinyl like liquidity, without the noise floor.

It is really the most convienent way to listen to music for me, and the best sounding. If you can afford the cost of entry, it is really an enjoyable experience.

Maybe some of those Lite On DAC's that GR Research is importing might be just the thing if he can get one with a USB input.

Scott F. · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 Jan 2006, 03:14 pm »

Quote from: Marbles

Scott, using my computer as a source to an EA I2S Turbo OFF Ramp to an EA modded P3a dac, I am getting vinyl like liquidity, without the noise floor.

It is really the most convienent way to listen to music for me, and the best sounding. If you can afford the cost of entry, it is really an enjoyable experience.

Maybe some of those Lite On DAC's that GR Research is importing might be just the thing if he can get one with a USB input.

I agree, the computer based audio is getting really close to the sounds of vinyl. My AH! hasn't been turned on in almost two months. I'm completely sold on rip'n play when you use quality gear. I love the convienience.

For me, vinyl still has the edge but the margin has narrowed considerably. Ya know what sucks? I just spent buttloads on a new vinyl rig and then I discovered the sound of Waynes modded SB shortly thereafter. .....oh well

I haven't heard Steve's Off Ramp yet but I hope to soon

I think ger56 is from the UK. His Pioneer 565 is the euro version so he might hesitate about ordering from here in the States which is why I mentioned all of the UK brands and TNT. Then again, as weak as the dollar is, he might get a better deal here even considering VAT and shipping costs.

One thing is for sure, (most) computer based audio definately has less jitter than the typical (read=cheap) stand alone CD player or DVD which should cure his problem.

ger56 · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 Jan 2006, 04:25 pm »

Hello

some remark

1. I have the same problem using jbl 250 Ti ( 4 way conventional speaker - no horn )
2. I also use a ps1 wich is know by someusers as a godd cd player ; there is much less 'sssss ' than the pionner and seem to be more neutral but still far from vinyl .

Sorry I do not know how to use an external Dac ? where should I connect it ?

ger56

ps : I live in Casablanca - Morocco , so I can buy anywhere ,it is the same except I need 220 vac 50 hz

hifitommy · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 Jan 2006, 06:05 pm »

about upsampling and dvd players, my experience runs counter to the statements here.

upsampling is a true benefit to sound as implemented by the sony units with sacd capability. first, sacd comes very close to vinyl sound without the artifacts of noise that so many people whine about.

furthermore, the rbcd playback on the sony dvd/cd/sacd players is steps ahead of conventional CDPs. AND they are exquisitely affordable and dont dumb down to pcm in the sacd mode.

that said, i agree that tubed players/dacs can give fine results. CAL sigmas are a good example of great tubed DACs. and the ah and jolida tubed units have been highly spoken of.

cdorval1 · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 Jan 2006, 09:30 pm »

"Sorry I do not know how to use an external Dac ? where should I connect it ?"

Good question, and knowing this will help you get better sound very quickly.

As all the posters have said, your problem is most likely with the digital-analog-converter (DAC) built into your DVD player. Check the back of your DVD player for a single connection labeled something like "digital audio out" or "coaxial audio out." When you buy a separate, high-quality DAC, it is connected to one of these outputs from your DVD player. Good DACs can be had for a wide range of prices.

For more information and one excellent possility, see
http://www.avahifi.com/root/equipment/dac/omegastar_dac.htm

Good luck!

Craig

ricmon · « **Reply #13 on:** 16 Jan 2006, 09:56 pm »

Most of the current generation one box player and dac's are getting very close to vinyl. just do some preliminary research in your price range and the go listen to them and pick the one that suits you. (i happen to have choosen the creek mk11, give it a try)

tvad4 · « **Reply #14 on:** 16 Jan 2006, 10:18 pm »

You might seriously consider auditioning Dakiom Feedback Stabilizers.

I have tried these, and while they were not to my taste, I did feel they made my CD player sound closer to vinyl. They are a heckava lot cheaper than a DAC or new CD player, and they might get you where you want to go.

I have no affiliation with Dakiom.

jeffjazz · « **Reply #15 on:** 17 Jan 2006, 04:51 am »

This Dak sounded more analogue than my Eastsound E5 cd player. Ithe rakk Dac was warmer and rounded. Her's a like they are around $700. Probably one of the best on the market. It is a DIY dac, but they will build one for you. Happy hunting!

jeffjazz · « **Reply #16 on:** 17 Jan 2006, 04:55 am »

http://www.kandkaudio.com/digitalaudio.html

ger56 · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 Jan 2006, 03:32 pm »

Very interesting

Thank you , I will look at it .

Regards

mmiles · « **Reply #18 on:** 20 Jan 2006, 04:34 pm »

My first post so I better make it good...

If you are looking for an all in one solution (single box) the CARY AUDIO DESIGN 303/300 is hard to beat. Pricey at $4,000.00 but there are deals out there.

The player has tube and solid state output sections, I prefer tubes on vocals and jazz, and upsample conversion to 768khz or something like that. You change any of the settings on the fly as well!

It was listed in Stereophile as top choice if that means anything to you.

How did I do for my first post? Not to off subject or path I hope.

Regards,
Mike

miklorsmith · « **Reply #19 on:** 20 Jan 2006, 04:57 pm »

(Thunderous applause)

Welcome, an excellent first outing.

Hooked up to a Krell KPS 28c, an upsampling player player which retailed for about $6,500, I thought either of the battery-powered, non-OS DACs I have in residence were far more analog sounding than the on-board DAC. I noted similar differences with my personal, highly modded Music Hall player, also an upsampling unit. Others have noted this same thing:

http://6moons.com/audioreviews/roadtour3b/roadtour3b.html

Specifically, note the comments regarding the Monica 2 DAC (with a little pitch for Red Wine).

Upsampling generally will give more treble extension and provide more defined edges in the bass and midrange areas. Overall, the presentation seems more precise and detailed. Over time and through comparisons, I feel these enhancements are artificial and draw undue attention to parts of the music to the detriment of the whole.

In short-term A/B comparisons, I would guess most listeners find the OS sound more impressive but over the long term would leave those same people yearning for "something", even if they couldn't identify what, exactly, it is. Interestingly, some switching amplifiers have similar weaknesses.