[jqp]

Time for a new PC

I am torn between buying from Dell and building. Dell is convenient and decent quality. But what I want seems to cost at least US$1500

So I will build one on paper, then take another look.

I hope you can help me on this quest.

I want something like this:

Nearly the fastest Processor
2-4GB RAM
room for plenty of optical drives - 3 at least
room for 2-3 removable drive cages
Quiet
easy to access and work in the case
Dual monitor support (or even three) - not primarily for gaming
excellent power supply
PC uses:  media editing, workhorse, HTPC

Upgradeability is probably not a primary concern. Remember this will be obolete in a year or two and upgrading a PC is usually a losing proposition.

I want the best components for the money

[Marbles]

If you wait just a bit, the Intel ViiV dual core chip, bundled with Windows media machines will be out.  This should be about perfect for HTPC/Audio machines.

There will be even better HTPC (Viiv) integration in the second half of this year.

[jqp]

Power supplies are very important

http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/07/11/stress_test/

"In this test, more than 1000 watts will be drawn from the power grid for the biggest units. As a result, the power lines heat up a great deal, fans running at full speed produce deafening noise, and the smell of over-heated plastic and paint fills the air."

[Levi]

Check Boxxtech.com

[Folsom]

I will help you if you are not interested in waiting for any thing.

[Brad]

jqp,

I can help you spec out a nice PC if you're interested.   Fry's just had the Antec Sonata case on sale for $59.  I moved my pc with 4 hard drives, 2 optical drives, etc, etc, into one - and you can BARELY tell it's running now.
Plenty of room inside, looks nice, and well-laid out.

Building a PC is a lot easier than it used to be, but system packages are pretty cheap now, too.    $1500 should make for a very nice custom pc - with only the components YOU want in it.

I'll PM you a list, with pricing from Newegg, later this afternoon.

[Levi]

Interesting.  I am thinking about building a PC too.  I have read Tomshardware for the latest CPUs and system boards and now I am more confused than ever.  Confused or not maybe I just don't see what I am looking for.  

I am looking for a system board that has a built in SCSI 320 interface. Support for SLI video card and dual core CPU.

I currently have a SCSI 160 card with two 36GB 15,000rpm for the OS in my main system in a Lian Li aluminum case. The noise on the HDD is surprisingly negligible.

[BWentler]

If you are looking for  an AMD CPU option, check this out:

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=OTMz

Enjoy...

[Eli]

Time for a new PC

I am torn between buying from Dell and building. Dell is convenient and decent quality. But what I want seems to cost at least US$1500

So I will build one on paper, then take another look.

I hope you can help me on this quest.

I want something like this:

Nearly the fastest Processor
2-4GB RAM
room for plenty of optical drives - 3 at least
room for 2-3 removable drive cages
Quiet
easy to access and work in the case
Dual monitor support (or even three) - not primarily fo ...

Good approach.  Do it on paper and then see what it would cost from Dell.  I wouldn't touch a Dell, but if you're convinced that the machine is a throwaway in a year or so, what the hell.  The bottom line is that if you're going to put a budget cap on the total price then you will have to make compromises in your component choices.

The idea of a maxed-out machine being "quiet", as well as functioning as an HTPC, is somewhat of a contradiction.  It can be used as such, but it's highly unlikely that it can ever be as quiet as a machine built purposefully to be a quiet HTPC.  Multiple hard disks, case fans to cool them, fans in big power supplies, fans on fast CPUs, fans on fast video processors, chipset fans, all add up to some serious noise.

You'll pay exorbitantly for processors at the top of the line.  You can easily pay over a $1000 for the fastest processors, while a $400 one will get you 90% of the performance.

2-4GB RAM.  Get 2 and then see if you need more.  It's easy to add, and will only get cheaper.  You many not need it now, but in a year, if you decide to keep the machine, you might want to add more as new applications demand it.  If you buy from Dell, they'll rape you on memory upgrades.  Memory is fairly ubiquitous - get quality memory, but don't get caught up in all the timing BS.  Your system is likely to have any number of other bottlenecks when performing a given task that having the fastest memory on the planet will make almost zero difference and only drain your wallet.

Easy to work on case - with a Dell, it will be a crap shoot.  Building your own will be the only way to assure yourself of a case you like.

If you're still gungho on a general-purpose workhorse I'd start by choosing a processor.  An AMD Athlon 64 on a socket 939 board is a good start, either an X2 (dual core) processor or a faster single-core.  If I were spending the money, I'd go for the dual core and get one with 1MB of L2 cache for each core.

[sts9fan]

If you do go the Dell route. Google "dell coupons" I foundone that got me $450 off my new one.

[jermmd]

It's probably cheaper to go the Dell route (see specials on Gotapex.com,etc.) but building your own PC has many benefits. Keep an eye on Anandtech.com hot deals section. If I were going to start a new build, I would start with this.

[Folsom]

Let us know what you are thinking.... I would be happy to do the same by giving you a list of what I would buy, and why I would buy it.

[Rob Babcock]

I wouldn't buy a dual core pentium- my first choice would be a dual core AMD.  You can get a lot of ponies for the $ vs an Intel.  No knock on Intel, I've built with them before.  It just depends on what you're using it for.

I've been drooling over a Newcastle or San Diego myself.

[westend]

jqp,

I can help you spec out a nice PC if you're interested.   Fry's just had the Antec Sonata case on sale for $59.  I moved my pc with 4 hard drives, 2 optical drives, etc, etc, into one - and you can BARELY tell it's running now.
Plenty of room inside, looks nice, and well-laid out.

Building a PC is a lot easier than it used to be, but system packages are pretty cheap now, too.    $1500 should make for a very nice custom pc - with only the components YOU want in it.

I'll PM you a list, with pricing from Newegg, later this afternoon.

The Sonata is a great case, it's only drawback being somewhat large for some folks. The 120mm Smart fans(moving a lot of air with no noise), removable drive racks, quality PSU, and superior exterior finish overcome the size issue, IMO. BTW, the Egg is the best.

[bpape]

The other place that consistently has great pricing and great service is mwave.com - I rarely buy from anyone else.  The few times I've compared, the Egg is almost always more expensive though I've heard their service is also good.

The Sonata is a great case - I've built several machines using it for some hard-core gamers and they all love it.  VERY quiet, nice looking, easy to work on, etc.

As for the CPU, it depends on the application needs.  I'm usually an AMD guy.  But, some applications, especially video ones for HTPC usage, just like raw clock cycles.  In those cases, Intel may be a better choice.  If you can afford an AMD with enough raw clock speed, I'd go that way.  Just presenting things to consider.

[mshan]

http://www.videoguys.com/system.htm

http://videoguys.com/DIY.html

1 GB memory is probably sufficient for entry level video editing (2 GB is said to be optimal).

2 GB or more is recommended for heavy Photoshop.

Gamers, at least right now, say there is not much benefit from going for more than 1 MB memory (though memory prices are cheap right now).


You could also just get a new Apple iMac (with the Intel cpus) with either the 17 inch or 20 integrated LCD screen. (MSRP $1299 or MSRP $1699, but includes everything, including keyboard, mouse, and integrated iSight for webconferencing, telephony, etc.):

http://www.apple.com/imac/

[boead]

I have been building ‘Hot Rod’ PC’s for years.  I have an overclocking problem, I can’t stop overclocking everything I own.  

Anyway. I’ve always flipped back and forth between AMD and Intel. I have respect for both. When the AthlonXP was up against the P4/533’s it was a no brainer, the AMD’s were considerably faster and overclocked like animals. I was getting 250MHz from my FSB long before 166MHz became standard.

Then P4/800’s came out with Hyper Threading! That along with the Intel i875 chipset and you had an Athlon killer! My current P4 does 3800MHz (255Mhz FSB – 1020MHz effectively) and always impresses me. The Hyper Threading works wonders, I can’t live with a single core anymore.

Recently I replaced my P4E 3.0/i875 machine at my work desk with a NewCastle Athlon64 X2 3800+ on a VIA chipset. At 2100MHz (mildly overclocked  ), this dual core CPU is GREAT! Slightly faster and smoother then the P4E at 3000MHz.

Unfortunately the CPU’s aren’t cheap, the P4e 3.0 is less then half the price of the Athlon64X2 3800+.

Dell isn’t bad but you get what you pay for!!

Mshan, I do lots of video editing in Above Premier. I edited for some time with 512MB of RAM with Windows XP and it was just fine! I still only have 1GB and its entirely unnecessary to have any more. If I were using something like Adobe After Effects then maybe I’d want more then 1GB of RAM but for video Editing in Premier, its simply not necessary.  It’s another urban myth.

[mshan]

I am no video editing expert, but I just built a dedicated video editing computer for my dad (very similar to DIY I at videoguys.com) with Adobe Premier Pro 1.0 and a Matrox RTX.10.

While encoding to MPEG-2 and using the updated Adobe MPEG-2 engine, my commit charge is around 750,000 (in task manager):
http://www.mainconcept.com/adobemedia/downloads.html
Before updating the MPEG-2 encoder, Adobe was using over 1.2 GB of memory during encoding.

I would guess that upgrading to 1 MB of RAM might reduce your encode times somewhat, as the system won't have to go to the hard drive for page filing during the encoding process (?).

Also read somewhere that overclocking a video editing system can lead to a-v synch problems.

Other thing I read is that, at least in the past, many of these non-linear video editing software programs are optimized around the Pentium IV, so they may be faster for video editing than a faster on paper Athlon 64.  Dual core may be the future, but at least according to the video guys, nle software may not yet be optimized for this new cpus.

[boead]

The system is using the HD page anyway, you can have 4GB of RAM in the machine and it still will use some paging, it’s the nature of the beast.

Overclocking a CPU and AV sync issue is a myth, in my experience. You know what leads to a-v synch problems? Everything else!

The P4’s optimizations are in terms of SSE2 and now SSE3 instruction mostly. Also, the P4’s with Intel chipsets can produce superior memory bandwidth. So to some extent this is true however, the Athlon64 supports SSE2 and SSE3, they also have improved chipsets available from VIA and nVIdia and the memory hub is in the CPU die so bandwidth is nearly that of a P4 today, the differences are slim(er). The shear processing power of the Athlon64 FX is mind bending. Having TWO on a single die is desirable but expensive. The system doesn’t need to be 64-bit to take advantage of the CPU’s processing power. Most reviews and comparisons are done with 32-bit applications anyhow and they still pull ahead, with 64-bit apps they pull ahead significantly. This is how Apple makes its claims, all its reviews and comparisons are done as a 64-bit system, which it is) and compared to 32-bit PC based systems. Not apples to apples.

I’m using WindowsXP x64 at work on an Athlon64 X2 system and I’m not pleased with the MS 64-bit OS, it lacks driver support and isn’t as stable as it should be. I should have left it 32-bit.


My P4 Frankenstein: