[ohenry]

The guys at tower hobbies said that this product was 1000 cst silicone oil and it appears to work.  However, it may not be as good as the medical grade products.  Tower sells it for lubricating RC car differentials.  A small bottle (lifetime supply) for <$7.00.

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXKKE3&P=7#tech

[skrivis]

Frank is the man.  

I got around to ordering and receiving the Grado Green.  It was tempting to go with a higher priced model, but in my old age I'm beginning to take direction well from those I trust.  And Frank has made a career of being right.

It's always been my impression that, with the Grado products, you start at good and cheap, then it quickly goes up to great, and then you get into diminishing returns for the extra money. There's a definite sweet spot with their products.

[skrivis]

The guys at tower hobbies said that this product was 1000 cst silicone oil and it appears to work.  However, it may not be as good as the medical grade products.  Tower sells it for lubricating RC car differentials.  A small bottle (lifetime supply) for <$7.00.

I doubt that there's too much difference between this and medical products. I suppose they might take more care in purifying the medical grade, but it's more likely the difference is storage, packaging, and that they'll certify the medical grade has no hazardous impurities.

The medical grade isn't used for damping as far as I know. (Though I guess it could make for great earmuffs once installed.)

I wouldn't worry about any possible slight differences. For this purpose I think it's meaningless.

[avahifi]

I very recently actually sent all the build info on the Longhorn Grado to John Grado at Grado Labs, including photos.  All I wanted was my name mentioned if they used the ideas themselves - or maybe $1.00 per cartridge sold?  (Very greedy on my part )

All I got back was a terse e-mail saying "they were not interested".

Geeze the NIH syndrome is everywhere.  I guess they are simply not interested in trying something that actually works for good engineering reasons.

Perhaps if you bombarded them with a few user letters?

Frank Van Alstine

[skrivis]

Aw Frank, sorry to hear about the pain! Here's hoping it doesn't last.

I downloaded and printed the 1982 issue of Audio Basics where you talk about the Longhorn and about proper cartridge loading. Unfortunately, the calculations on page 7 printed over the text in column two and are difficult to decipher. Would you please post them here? The manufacturer of my cartridge recommends a 100ohm load but I just wanted to double check. Thanks!

I noticed this a while back. Something got screwed up when the pdf was created. If Frank doesn't give us a fix, then I'll dig up my paper copy of that issue and see what I can do.

[avahifi]

I did fix the Longhorn Grado .pdf file, but I need to send it directly, the web copy is not fixed yet.

Frank

[TheChairGuy]

Just found this yesterday...courtesy of Hagerman Technology.

A wonderful resource - many thanks to Jim Hagerman for this!

http://www.hagtech.com/loading.html

[ohenry]

I very recently actually sent all the build info on the Longhorn Grado to John Grado at Grado Labs, including photos.  All I wanted was my name mentioned if they used the ideas themselves - or maybe $1.00 per cartridge sold?  (Very greedy on my part )

All I got back was a terse e-mail saying "they were not interested".

Geeze the NIH syndrome is everywhere.  I guess they are simply not interested in trying something that actually works for good engineering reasons.

Perhaps if you bombarded them with a few user letters?

Frank Van Alstine

I'll make some noise tonight when I register my cartridge with Grado on line.  They really should at least try it before dismissing the idea.

[avahifi]

Some of your might ask, "what is the problem with a high frequency peak that is way outside the audio range?"

The problem is that the peak tells us your cartridge - interconnect set is resonating at that frequency.  It is an oscillator.  The electrical rule about oscillators is that they oscillate.  They have output at that frequency when disturbed any harmonic of that frequency and more.  The graphed peaks shown above are just the needle in the haystack.  They also oscillate at the harmonincs of the peak, and more.

Two really bad things happen.  First the cartridge is feeding out of band high energy into your system.  While you may not be able to hear that, your system does.  Tweeters don't like it, and any electronics that are driven to or past their maximum rate of change won't like it either, they will go into slew rate limiting.  And while that is happening, all musical signal is erased.

Finally, now with the peak, you are hearing the music along with any low level oscillations the cartridge/cable combination was producing, and all the garbage the system is producing too, trying to reproduce the garbage along with the music.

So all you guys wondering about how much you should spend on speaker wires and cables, think instead about getting a critically damped system from one end to the other first.  Sorry, it takes a bit of math and some actual measurements, and that is no fun at all.  But the math works, the vodoo cables do not.

Frank Van Alstine

[skrivis]

Just found this yesterday...courtesy of Hagerman Technology.

A wonderful resource - many thanks to Jim Hagerman for this!

http://www.hagtech.com/loading.html

And then there's an explanation of the whole thing at:

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_6/1.html

Note that this is a fairly in-depth description of the underlying principles. It's not going to be directly useful in figuring out how to load your cartridge.

Consider it to be "Continuing Education."

[TheChairGuy]

Frank, a sincere thanks for keeping us thinking...in your own pesky, persnickety style

[TheChairGuy]

The guys at tower hobbies said that this product was 1000 cst silicone oil and it appears to work.  However, it may not be as good as the medical grade products.  Tower sells it for lubricating RC car differentials.  A small bottle (lifetime supply) for <$7.00.

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXKKE3&P=7#tech

Awesome Henry.

I just ordered it - $10.18 with shipping.  If they ship fast, it'll be here in no time.  I'm only a 4 hour drive to their Reno, NV distribution facility.

They have 10,000 grade silcone oil, too, for $7.19 + shipping.  Perfect for tonearm damping troughs.  I think I paid $10.00 for a bit less fluid in a fancier dispenser from www.turntablebasics.com.  They have flat rate shipping for any amount ordered...they have good prices on replacement record sleeves, and I've bought a bunch from them.

You (Audio) Circle Jerks are great!!

Thx again, John

[avahifi]

10,000 is really pretty thick, might cause some bearing drag, we had recommended and use 1000 centistroke.

Frank

[TheChairGuy]

Frank, 10,000/20,000/30,000 cst are the usual recommendations for tonearm troughs by most manufacurers that I've read....100,000 or 300,000 for damped cueing levers.

1000 cst would seem to little to effect much good in damping a 9" wand of whatever material it's made from (steel, plastic, aluminum, carbon, etc).

http://www.turntablebasics.com/silicone.html

[skrivis]

Frank, 10,000/20,000/30,000 cst are the usual recommendations for tonearm troughs by most manufacurers that I've read....100,000 or 300,000 for damped cueing levers.

1000 cst would seem to little to effect much good in damping a 9" wand of whatever material it's made from (steel, plastic, aluminum, carbon, etc).

http://www.turntablebasics.com/silicone.html

1000 centistroke is probably just right for damping the arm bearings though.

[avahifi]

OK for that kind of damping, controling a tonearm with a pot of goo, then 10,000 should be fine, but 1000 in the arm bearings and in the stylus assembly of your Grado !!!  Just a tiny drop in the litle hole the stylus shaft comes out of does the trick.

More secrets revealed  

Frank

[TheChairGuy]

Got my gooey, 1000cst in today...and got to work modding.

Dropped a spot here and there in my Audio Technica, and what the hey and why not so I glued the stylus piece to the body for more rigidity (in the oddball pricing structure of AT on the AT440ml in the U.S., you can buy a whole cartridge for $85...and a replacement stylus for $75...so why the heck not   ), overall.

Rebalanced et al, and let 'er rip.

At least on the A-T, the difference was not nearly as pronounced as the original Longhorn addition. Perhaps they already damp their coils pretty well inside...the effect brought about a slight increase in bass tautness, and maybe a little better resolution.  

Neither the Longhorn or the silicone oil did anything for the shortfall in that magical transparency that MM's lack relative to MC's, or a certain smoothness and superior imaging that MC's seem to have....but they improve the impact/dynamics, bass weight, tonality, density of notes, a bit of resolution of any MM, I suppose. You're talking maybe $12.00 in materials and a little of your time to greatly improve what you already own...so why not try it? It certainly makes that MM a lot better than it is now for very little cash.  

A very worthwhile $12.00 spent to be sure...many thanks to Frank van Alstine for spilling his 'secrets' (I think it was the demerol )  and everybody that helped this topic along    

[Sarchi]

I did the Longhorn mod to my Nagaoka last night. First, I nuked 3/4 of my stylus assembly--classic box shape with 4 plastic 'sides' and two open ones. I cut off the front and sides, kept the 'bottom' which holds the stylus and interface. Now the front of my cart was exposed and I could do the Longhorn. Oh, I also filled all the 'cracks' in (but with liquid silicone) as Franks recommends to do with plasti-clay. I stayed away from the stylus and any internals.

Unfortunately, my subwoofer fried out a week ago and I'm waiting for a replacement. I'm spinning records and it sounds good. But since my system sounds pretty flat without the sub, I can't really give my impressions on sonic differences yet.

There are the things I learned/questions that came up with the actual mod itself.

1. I used plain clear 'liquid silicone' from the hardware store. The stuff does give you headaches, use a vented room as the warning label suggests.
2. I used #181 1/8 brass U-channel as recommended by AVA. I couldn't saw it with my crappy hacksaw..the only way to cut the length was with a wire cutter pliers. The advantage I got was that the snip closed the end off in a 'tapered' sort of shape; so I bent the other end the same to match it. This means the solder can then be flowed in easily without worrying about it spilling out the open end.  (see pics below)
3. Cutting the notch with a small metal file was brutal. I'm not much of a metal hobbyist, probably there's an easier way. I was wondering, is there a softer metal that can be used? My notches are ugly as hell, and the fit to the cartridge isn't snug as I'd like. Will I get the benefits if the fit isn't sung? (assuming everything else is done by the book)
4. I used Lepage 5-minute epoxy to attach the bar to the cart.
5. I had a couple of drops while working on the stylus body, I don't think any damage was done, but I'm a bit worried- my cantilever seems to deflect a bit more than before(?). I've backed off by 0.2g on the VTF, but it still seems to ride a bit low.    No noticeable sound degradation though.
6. Silicone is a dust magnet. At least while it's tacky.

In summary (for now): this was a fun mod, though pretty strange...I'm not at all surprised that most people would shudder -if not scoff- at doing this to their cartridges. My feeling right now is that this is NOT something I'd do to an expensive cartridge, but probably worthwhile on lower priced models. But I hope to report a more unqualified opinion soon.

[Sarchi]

Pics- (yeah, did I mention it's a hackjob..)


http://www.triumph675.net/audio/114_1458.jpg

http://www.triumph675.net/audio/114_1460.jpg

http://www.triumph675.net/audio/114_1461.jpg

[TheChairGuy]

It's not so ugly - the little mustache/horn modification itself is weirder and worse than any of the workmanship you put into it yours.  It's just plain ugly/weird no matter what you do.

Did you see my ugly beast of a Audio Technica cartridge a few pages back?..it's got black goo attached to 3 sprigs of one-and-a-half inch of 13ga magnet wire.  Now, THAT'S pig ugly  

But, extremely worthwhile...love to hear your impressions when you can