[jermmd]

How much do you think the discs will cost?

[jgubman]

At CES, toshiba was saying HD-DVDs will be a $5 premium over regular DVD prices. They also said they'd have their (working and on display) $499 and $799 players on the market in March.

The B/R people wouldn't commit or hint at any price/date.

Toshiba's HD-DVD demo looked pretty good, the B/R demo (playing on a Qualia rear-projection set) looked terrible for some reason -- very noisy picture and lack-luster sound. The PS3 demo (playing pre-rendered video on relatively small plasma screens) looked very, very good.

Of course the Runco demo, playing the first 5-minutes of star wars III in 1080P (they didn't say what the source was, only that it was a special accomodation from Lucasfilm), looked incredible.

Everybody (Sharp, LG, Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic) had blu-ray machines on display, but the only one I noticed that had DTS+ and Dolby TrueHD was the pioneer elite.

[Ears]

How much do you think the discs will cost?

Don't know....I will guess between 25.00 and 50.00 list

I will be a lot more particular about which future discs I buy at these kind of prices.

Expect places like highdefinitionrentals.com to be renting both formats discs and eventually places like Netflix and Blockbuster online.

[bubba966]

How much do you think the discs will cost?

Don't know....I will guess between 25.00 and 50.00 list

I will be a lot more particular about which future discs I buy at these kind of prices.

That doesn't seem so bad.

But I'm also used to buying DVD's from Japan. Which frequently cost me $50-$150 each.

[Eric5676]

http://www.cnet.com/4831-11405_1-6411878.html?tag=next

http://ces.betanews.com/entry/Bluray_What_Format_War/1136581584

http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20060106_0000223502


Here's how the Toshiba HD-DVD performed at CES:

 
LAS VEGAS - It was supposed to be the grand unveiling of a new generation in home entertainment when Kevin Collins of Microsoft Corp. popped an HD DVD disc into a Toshiba production model and hit "play." Nothing happened.
The failed product demo at this week's International Consumer Electronics Show was hardly an auspicious start for the HD DVD camp in what's promising to be a nasty, drawn-out technology format war reminiscent of the Betamax/VHS video tape battle.

 

The attempted explanation and refutation of this:

Amir explained it in the other forum (for those that don't know Amir Majidimehr is  the vice president of the Windows Digital Media division at MS. He was the one that chose HD-DVD for MS and  part of his team is working with Toshiba on the player)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6868800&highlight=bug#post6868800

Amir doesn't do himself any favors when he stops just short accusing everyone of being a liar who says the demo failed.

Instead he says that the demo didn't work because it couldn't even start up, which if it is a cover story is a pretty poor one in my opinion.

What's funny is: Even back when MS was technically netural in this whole HD-DVD vs. BR thing, Amir had no problems attacking Blu-Ray any chance he got.

Now it's gotten to the point where he's almost a caricature of himself and he's pretty much undermined his own credibility.

In this context, alot of what he writes and says come across as nothing more than propoganda and has to be taken with a grain of salt.



This is typical behavior and rhetoric from many of Microsoft's mouthpieces, whether it be in regards to the Xbox or now this: They talk a bunch of trash and make a bunch of grandiose promises without any concrete backup or facts. And they think nothing of slinging mud as the oldest smokscreen trick in the book.


The dead giveaway is: Look at the posts he writes at places like AVS.

Notice that he spends far more time in his posts attacking Blu-ray than promoting HD-DVD. Not that I can really blame him when their is so little that one can really promote with HD-DVD.

It's just like so many political campaigns we've seen: The candidate stands for nothing and really has nothing to offer, so all that's left is to attack and smear the opposition in a desperate and ultimately frustrated and futile effort.



But like I've said a million times: Anything Sony does, MS will be on the opposite side of JUST BECAUSE.  



Sony could find the cure for cancer tomorrow and MS would be on the opposite side of that as well, practically.


So, I really don't believe Amir upfront, even when you disregard all of this.

Why? Because we've been here before:


From IFA 2005:

Toshiba was showing off a reference model of their HD-DVD player and a selection of HD-DVD media including a HD-DVD/DVD hybrid disc. They originally planned to release a HD-DVD player in the US later this year, but it was recently moved back to March 2006. However, they still plan to release a HD-DVD player in Japan later this year.

When checking out their HD vs SD demonstration we noticed that they were having some minor technical problems, so we asked the person running the presentation about it (not a Toshiba official). He informed us that every time they wanted to play a HD-DVD they would have to wait for about 20 seconds before the playback actually started. He also said that they had to shut down the player every 30 minutes to let it cool down. According to the representative the player had been shipped directly to the show from Japan, so we guess it's possible that it had been damaged on its way to IFA.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060107/ap_on_hi_te/gadget_show_dvd_wars;_ylt=AiAqWUt4qUhGadEuBrrR8Fus0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3cjE0b2MwBHNlYwM3Mzg-[/QUOTE]
 

You can look at that as well.





That's the second show in a row they've been to a major show and had an embarassing failure like that. \

How many MONTHS after IFA 2005 and it's the same issues?  "We didn't connect it right" only flies as an excuse so many times. Actually, it doesn't fly at all.



Their lone consumer electronics partner, Sanyo, who is SUPPOSED to be putting out HD-DVD hardware along with Toshiba? They didn't even bother to show up or present anything.



IMHO, the reason Toshiba is bringing this HD-DVD player out at a firehouse sale price of $499 is simple: It shows utter desperation.

The reason things cost much more at launch is because everyone wants to make more money. Toshiba has assumed it has no chance of winning and decided to have a fire sale to keep it in business.

I don't know about you all, but a $500 first generation Toshiba anything doesn't inspire me with confidence.

[ctviggen]

Personally, I'd be shocked if either of these formats take off.  For those of us with "smaller" systems like my 57 inch RPTV, DVD as it exists now is a darn nice picture.  Granted, HD is better, but it's not worth it to me to purchase yet another DVD player, especially considering how much the HD-DVDs cost.  I personally think the additional cost outweighs the benefits.  However, after seeing jermmd's  front projection system -- which cost less than my RPTV, I'm thinking of going front projection.  Then, I think I'll definitely consider HD-DVD.  Until then, though, I'm happy with what I have.

[Eric5676]

Personally, I'd be shocked if either of these formats take off.  For those of us with "smaller" systems like my 57 inch RPTV, DVD as it exists now is a darn nice picture.  Granted, HD is better, but it's not worth it to me to purchase yet another DVD player, especially considering how much the HD-DVDs cost.  I personally think the additional cost outweighs the benefits.  However, after seeing jermmd's  front projection system -- which cost less than my RPTV, I'm thinking of going front projection.  Then, I think I'll definitely consider HD-DVD.  Until then, though, I'm happy with what I have.

Whatever happens, you are right: It's going to be a very slow, and probably painful process.

[levesque]

I'm using a 1080p projector since 1 month already, the Sony "Ruby" VPL-VW100 and HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players can't come fast enough on the market for me.

On a 110" screen, my D-VHS films are spectacular at 1080p.

[Eric5676]

I'm using a 1080p projector since 1 month already, the Sony "Ruby" VPL-VW100 and HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players can't come fast enough on the market for me.

On a 110" screen, my D-VHS films are spectacular at 1080p.

That's one thing for sure: People that are interested and knowledgeable about these products AT ALL will not settle for anything less than AT LEAST D-VHS picture quality.

PQ wise, that's the standard to beat right now.


BTW, I think you must take a world record for how often you change and upgrade your equipment!    

Damn nice choice, though. That Ruby is amazing!

[Ears]

Nice pj Levesque ...I will have to hold out for the 10k Optoma H-81 1080p dlp with outboard (Genum I beleive scaler)....when it streets for 5-6k this summer and make do

I will not spend more than 5 k or so, and would prefer 3-4k which should be around this time next year.

Cnet said the Pioneer Elite was best in show....and that they pick B/R to have the most staying power.

Theres evidently some smart people at Cnet

[levesque]

Ears.

Im beta-testing both a Gennum and a Realta HQV scaler right now at home. So I don't want a PJ company to push me a scaler down the throat. I want to choose what I like.  

And like I told you before,  I should receive a pre-production Pioneer Elite Blu-Ray player pretty soon... So while you will be waiting for those elusive 1 chip 1080p DLPs, I will already be playing with 1080p players and enjoying 1080p films on a real 1080p projector, not vaporware...  

[Ears]

Levesque.....that is great, can't wait to hear about the Elite B/R...  but your talking double the money for a nice outbard scaler and the ruby.....if not more as compared to what the street pricing will be with the Optoma.....and I have other hobbies and kids/college to pay for.

BTW.....that  Optama H-81 vaporware....took best in show at CES over all other pj's so it should do in a pinch.

[Eric5676]

Ears.

Im beta-testing both a Gennum and a Realta HQV scaler right now at home. So I don't want a PJ company to push me a scaler down the throat. I want to choose what I like.  

And like I told you before,  I should receive a pre-production Pioneer Elite Blu-Ray player pretty soon... So while you will be waiting for those elusive 1 chip 1080p DLPs, I will already be playing with 1080p players and enjoying 1080p films on a real 1080p projector, not vaporware...  

Some of the unofficial impressions I've gotten favor the Realta over the Gennum, so I'll be interested to see where you (and others) end up on that.

Good word coming out of CES about ABT's newest hardware as well.

[Ears]

Some coverage of both formats.

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/ces2006/gallery01.html

[Ears]

Net Flix chooses Blu Ray

http:/usgizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/netflix-jumps-gun-on-next-gen-dvd-138229.php

Theres a working link in the AVS forums Blu ray players section if this one doesn't work.

[Ears]

Heres a list for lack of studio support for the formats.

HD DVD has an initial player for half price that does not have the hdmi 1.3 for lossless audio playback or 1080p.
The studios not supporting HD DVD are..
Sony
MGM
Columbia Tri Star
Disney
Miramax
Fox
Lions Gate

The studios not supporting Blu Ray are..
Universal....who is rumoured to jump on board but time will tell.

So it looks like those that opt for the cheaper  50% Toshiba HD ...are not going to be getting movies like Star Wars or Aliens ect.

I forgot that Lions Gate is also exclusive to B/R...and is going to have T-2 under there label.

BTW.....Amazon already has 10 hd and 42 B/R movies listed at there site that will be for sale when there released.

[Eric5676]

I forgot that Lions Gate is also exclusive to B/R...and is going to have T-2 under there label.

BTW.....Amazon already has 10 hd and 42 B/R movies listed at there site that will be for sale when there released.

I can't help but notice how they have a nice dedicated section for HD-DVD up already, with Q&A, FAQs, and definitions, despite this disparity in number of titles.


I guess Amazon has already chosen their side.  


If this is a harbinger of things to come, I can't even imagine what the pimping and shilling of HD-DVD and that $500 Toshiba player will be like at places like Circuit City and Best Buy will be like.

It's going to be at least as bad as DivX was. Those salesman earned rancor for their overaggessiveness back then with that terrible product.

[Ears]

Q....they will sell both...its just that HD has players coming first and cheap enough to sell at Amazon.
Believe me they want everyones money

[Eric5676]

Q....they will sell both...its just that HD has players coming first and cheap enough to sell at Amazon.
Believe me they want everyones money

That's comforting, at least.  

[Ears]

Looks like porn is going with Blu Ray

http://www.xbiz.com/news_piece.php?id=12735