DAMN!!! I woke up to a ground loop!!! How did that happen?

Marbles · « **on:** 1 Jan 2006, 04:31 pm »

Yesterday all was well with my system...I played some concert DVD's (loud) played some tunes. No problems. This morning my son turns on a light switch(dimmer) for the next room and I hear a buzz...

That never happened before. I turned the light off and the buzzing went down, but did not go away.

What happened to get a ground loop when there wasn't one before? No changes were made (that I remember) grrrrrrrrrrrr

I hate running down ground loops when hungover

Edit: in my hungover haze I thought it was a ground loop, it is not, something is now putting crap on my line where it hadn't before.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #1 on:** 1 Jan 2006, 04:33 pm »

Maybe....after a long nite....you "think" you hear it.....

Chris[/list:u]

Marbles · « **Reply #2 on:** 1 Jan 2006, 04:40 pm »

Quote from: lonewolfny42

Maybe....after a long nite....you "think" you hear it.....
Happy New Year Rob !!!![/list:u]
Chris[/list:u]

It's freaking gone now!!! Chris maybe your right

I need to find out what electronics my wife was running....

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #3 on:** 1 Jan 2006, 04:42 pm »

Quote

It's freaking gone now!!!

Jon L · « **Reply #4 on:** 1 Jan 2006, 04:53 pm »

Quote from: Marbles

Yesterday all was well with my system...I played some concert DVD's (loud) played some tunes. No problems. This morning my son turns on a light switch(dimmer) for the next room and I hear a buzz...

That never happened before. I turned the light off and the buzzing went down, but did not go away.

What happened to get a ground loop when there wasn't one before? No changes were made (that I remember) grrrrrrrrrrrr

I hate running down ground loops when hungover

Did you really hear a 60 Hz (60 times a minute) bass hum, which would be ground loop? Or, did you hear a higher-pitched noise that changed sound as the dimmer was turned?

Dimmers are the worst things to inject this sort of noise into your system, right up there with CableTV boxes...

Marbles · « **Reply #5 on:** 1 Jan 2006, 05:09 pm »

Quote from: Jon L

Did you really hear a 60 Hz (60 times a minute) bass hum, which would be ground loop? Or, did you hear a higher-pitched noise that changed sound as the dimmer was turned?

Dimmers are the worst things to inject this sort of noise into your system, right up there with CableTV boxes...

It sure sounded like a ground loop..it did not change volume as the dimmer was turned.

It sent a noticeable buzz through the system when he turned it on, then I turned it off and it helped, but there was still a buzz. He has the light on now and there is no buzz at all. I haven't had any problems with a buzz before and the last time was definately a ground loop...all is well now though. Wish I knew what it was. Maybe some electronics put shit on the line that the amps picked up?

meby · « **Reply #6 on:** 1 Jan 2006, 05:28 pm »

Was your wife using her hair dryer?

Marbles · « **Reply #7 on:** 1 Jan 2006, 05:50 pm »

Quote from: meby

Was your wife using her hair dryer?

She said she wasn't using any electronics.

It's pretty strange, but at least it's gone now and all is well.

gonefishin · « **Reply #8 on:** 1 Jan 2006, 06:05 pm »

My guess is that you haven't been using the circuit much...so it needed to (re) break in. I'm sure with the holidays you've been in and out of the house more than usual, so things don't get as much use as they normally do.

Solution? Just leave the switch in the "on" position for at least 72 hours (Although I've heard of some dimmers taking months to break in fully). But 72 hours shouldbe enough to help the electrons stand in perfect alignment. Soon after...all should be good again

good luck!

dan

Marbles · « **Reply #9 on:** 1 Jan 2006, 06:28 pm »

Quote from: gonefishin

My guess is that you haven't been using the circuit much...so it needed to (re) break in. I'm sure with the holidays you've been in and out of the house more than usual, so things don't get as much use as they normally do.

Solution? Just leave the switch in the "on" position for at least 72 hours (Although I've heard of some dimmers taking months to break in fully). But 72 hours shouldbe enough to help the electrons stand in perfect alignment. Soon after...all should be good again

good luck!

dan

Thanks, but the kids have been off school for two weeks. For the last week and a half they've been playing their Xbox which is in that room.

Now the buzzing is back...

rosconey · « **Reply #10 on:** 1 Jan 2006, 06:43 pm »

i would kill for a imaginary buzz in my head,the voices are getting real old and mean

Marbles · « **Reply #11 on:** 1 Jan 2006, 07:31 pm »

All is quiet again....I wonder what is (was) dumping crap on my line???

fabaudio · « **Reply #12 on:** 1 Jan 2006, 07:37 pm »

Quote from: Marbles

All is quiet again....I wonder what is (was) dumping crap on my line???

Any reports of UFO's hovering over your area?

Zero · « **Reply #13 on:** 1 Jan 2006, 07:45 pm »

Marbles,

I wanted to respond here to assure you that you are not crazy (at least to a degree that I know of - heh). I too have the same issue going on at my place, and it is driving me insane!

warnerwh · « **Reply #14 on:** 1 Jan 2006, 08:38 pm »

A ground loop is a low frequency hum at 60hz. If it is coming out of more than the woofers then it is something else. To me a buzz is much higher in frequency. Dimmers, refrigerators, washers and any number of things on the same side of your electrical panel can do this. A power conditioner with an isolation transformer can rid you of the problem.

If it is a ground loop try the cheater plug method. The fact that it isn't continual though tells me it's most likely something else. Also try moving your interconnects and speaker cables around. If they get too close to a power cord that may cause a buzz especially if they aren't a shielded type.
Good luck. I've spent many hours dealing with ground loops and know how it sucks. With a hangover it has to be twice the fun.

Marbles · « **Reply #15 on:** 1 Jan 2006, 09:06 pm »

Quote from: warnerwh

A ground loop is a low frequency hum at 60hz. If it is coming out of more than the woofers then it is something else. To me a buzz is much higher in frequency. Dimmers, refrigerators, washers and any number of things on the same side of your electrical panel can do this. A power conditioner with an isolation transformer can rid you of the problem.

If it is a ground loop try the cheater plug method. The fact that it isn't continual though tells me it's most likely something else. Also try moving you ...

Thanks, it's not a ground loop..just some shit on the line.....now I have to figure out what it could be

I haven't had anything like this before....

warnerwh · « **Reply #16 on:** 1 Jan 2006, 09:46 pm »

I don't know whether you know how to do this yourself or not and it's potentially dangerous, like deadly dangerous.

When I ran lines to my room I moved everything like the washer, dryer, fridge etc on the opposite side of the electrical panel. This can help keep line noise down as most of it actually comes from your own home. It's also possible to get crap from your neighbors house! That would be a possible reason why you don't understand where it's coming from. I believe you have a small arsenal there and with a little coaxing your neighbors may be willing to leave everything off.

Another thing people do is put a very large isolation transformer near their panel and run lines to their room behind it. That is the surest way to clean power. The Powervar and Oneac's power conditioners that have isolation transformers built in will work too, as will the audiophile grade ones. For a power amp though I would only use one of the monster ones near your panel. Here's a good example of a large one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/5kva-Xentek-ultra-isolation-transformer-120-240-Topaz_W0QQitemZ7575868256QQcategoryZ50968QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And another even bigger: http://cgi.ebay.com/118-KVA-Drive-Isolation-Transformer-460-delta-460Y-266_W0QQitemZ7576013922QQcategoryZ71390QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

_scotty_ · « **Reply #17 on:** 1 Jan 2006, 10:52 pm »

Something to bear in mind, when breaker boxes are wired the electrical contractor tries to balance the electrical load on either side of the box.
Your home is supplied with 240volts from a center tap transformer.Each side of the tranformer has 120volts with respect to the neutral or center tap and
a total of 240 between the two windings of the transformer. It is a poor idea
to electrically unbalance the load across the transformer by putting all of the high amperage draw 120 volt appliances on one side of the transformer.
The good thing about dryers and electric stoves is that their resistive elements don't produce noise during operation.
Scotty

warnerwh · « **Reply #18 on:** 2 Jan 2006, 01:19 am »

Scotty: Good point regarding a balance of load on both phases. Are you saying the motor in a dryer doesn't add line noise? Thanks

Scott F. · « **Reply #19 on:** 2 Jan 2006, 01:38 am »

Hiya Marbles,

Buzzes can be a bitch to find. Since it's intermitant and doesn't have anything (or much) to do with a dimmer in your house, I would next check your refrigerator and freezer (if you have one). As the compressors age, they can leak noise onto the mains.

Next one, do you share a transformer with your neighbor(s)? As strange as it sounds, if they have something dumping enough trash back onto the lines, it could make it baack into your house.

About the only way to get rid of it once you've aquired a buzz is a transformer based, filter.

Good Luck!