B&W 802 & Bryston?

PavelL · « **on:** 29 Dec 2005, 10:31 pm »

Hi there! My first post here.

What do you Bryston people think of this combination - 4 bsst + Nautilus 802s. Room is smallish and I hardly ever listen LOUD. I had a discussion recently with a friend of mine who thinks that B&W with Bryston is a NO NO

. Not "musical" at all. Whatever that means

Comments anyone? Frankly speaking I was considering an upgrade to 7bs or another 4B SST for bi-amping and now I hear this. By the way, what is the "channel separation" figure of Bryston amps? If it is low I might consider monoblocks. Second, if I buy a second 4 b sst /which is MUCH easier than selling my 4 b and buying two 7Bs/ and arrange bi-amping would you recommend "vertical" biamplification or will I face some problems/I already have one 4 b SST and could use it bridged or I can biamplify my B&Ws either way/. Is this too many questions for a first post? Your replies will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

thomaspf · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 Dec 2005, 11:38 pm »

Well, the Bryston will just amplify whatever the signal is musical or not.

Whether the B&W will sound good with such a clean signal is an interesting question:-?

There are many other amps that add all sorts of distortion at various levels that sometimes help mask problems of the speakers. Some amps just add distortions that people find pleasing to listen to. Mark Levinson amps are famous for this. SNR of -75db and THD+N of 0.3%. That is about 8 bits resolution before distortion and noise.

Cheers

Thomas

PavelL · « **Reply #2 on:** 29 Dec 2005, 11:46 pm »

Thanks. I forgot to add that I more or less like what I hear... I think it works O.K. BUT there are so many things technical, like B&W 802s' CRAZY impedance that not all amps /that are supposed to "just amplify"/ can handle... So what about channel separation and vertical bi-apmplification?

Rocket · « **Reply #3 on:** 30 Dec 2005, 12:25 am »

Hi Pavel,

Don't let your friend mess with your mind

. If you like what you hear then that is the most important thing and don't listen to him.

I sold a nice amplifier (after a fellow audiophile bagged it) earlier this year and i went thru another 3 amps (and lots of money) to get a product which sounded better.

Happy listening.

Regards

Rod

opusone · « **Reply #4 on:** 30 Dec 2005, 12:41 am »

Yes, I agree with the previous poster. You may have gotten bad information from your friend.

I've run the SST series on my B&W Nautilus 805s, which despite being much smaller in size and power handling capabilities, share many of the same sonic characteristics with the entire line (I'm getting ready to place 802s up front and reposition the 805s to the rear).

It's a great pairing. Excellent sound stage -- both wide and deep, with very accurate imaging across the stage. Sound is reproduced center stage with a slight lean towards the front.

Maybe your buddy just listened to bad source material, which I will admit can sound bad. The Bryston is completely transparent (which is very nice IMO), so it tends to accurately portray what was produced in the mixing studio. Maybe he needs to get better recordings.

24/196 material sounds great; all the 'brightness' commonly associated with cds is gone, which you'll really appreciate with the Bryston. While I don't know first hand, I would imagine another amp (like a Levinson or better yet a McIntosh) may tend to overcompensate (bias warm) with newer material, which may produce an overall 'muddier' presentation.

BachToRock · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 Dec 2005, 01:24 pm »

We have a 4BSST powering some 802's and a pair of 7BSST's powering our 801's.

The sonic match is excellent beacause the SST's just provide effortless clean power without sonically altering the signal...

PavelL · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 Dec 2005, 01:33 pm »

Quote from: BachToRock

We have a 4BSST powering some 802's and a pair of 7BSST's powering our 801's.

The sonic match is excellent beacause the SST's just provide effortless clean power without sonically altering the signal...

Thanks for your reply! I still want to further improve my ENJOYMENT. So what about bi-amlification? What is your "testament"? And differences between 802s and 801s? Thanks and a Happy New Year!

nicolasb · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 Dec 2005, 01:46 pm »

Bryston and B&W are a great combination. The 802s are incredibly current-hungry, but a 4B-SST should cope pretty well. If you're considering splashing out on extra amplification, though, a single pair of 7B-SST monoblock amps will probably sound better than bi-amping with 4B-SST amps.

Having said that, if you really want to spend that much money, you might be better off selling your 802 speakers and buying some of the new 802D speakers instead.

PavelL · « **Reply #8 on:** 30 Dec 2005, 02:01 pm »

Quote from: nicolasb

Bryston and B&W are a great combination. The 802s are incredibly current-hungry, but a 4B-SST should cope pretty well. If you're considering splashing out on extra amplification, though, a single pair of 7B-SST monoblock amps will probably sound better than bi-amping with 4B-SST amps.

Having said that, if you really want to spend that much money, you might be better off selling your 802 speakers and buying some of the new 802D speakers instead.

Thanks! A true upgrade is when I buy 800D or 801D. It is.

To tell you the truth I was surprised by my dealer's reaction when I uttered this word "upgrade". It is just that he considers this diamond story a marketing gimmick to justify a further price hike. Inflation, a weak dollar and so on... In fact the dealer almost started laughing. But I WILL listen to the new series once my dealer gets the amps needed... regardless of what he thinks. And will decide for myself. By the way, I asked B&W about sonic superiority of the new series in systems with room calibration/equalization. I asked them TWICE. No answer so far. Is my English that poor? Am I not a customer? BAD B&W!!! Could have responded "Listen and you will see"

BachToRock · « **Reply #9 on:** 30 Dec 2005, 03:37 pm »

Quote from: PavelL

Thanks for your reply! I still want to further improve my ENJOYMENT. So what about bi-amlification? What is your "testament"? And differences between 802s and 801s? Thanks and a Happy New Year!

Differences? All I can say is that there is nothing like the way a large bass driver can move air, so I feel the 801's slighly edge out the 802's.
As far as Diamond Tweeters are concerned and huge price increases... well, let's just say that B&W like Marantz and others are marketing masters and always keep the ball rolling... Series 1, Series 2, Series 3, etc... Don't they ever design anything right the first time?

I still prefer my old NHT 3.3's to the B&W's... being a musician, I want to hear accurate recreation of what the actual instruments sound like, not a glossy or glorified presentation. The BRYSTON SST amps are the best that I have heard(or... not heard... in that they don't add a sonic signature) and the NHT's are still the best overall speaker I have heard.

KJ · « **Reply #10 on:** 30 Dec 2005, 04:57 pm »

I'd recommend listening to as many speakers as possible before you "upgrade." Ask yourself exactly what you want that is lacking in your system today. At the price point of the upper end Nautilus 800 series, there is a lot of competition out there. Bryston makes a very neutral sounding amp which will mate with a lot of different speakers quite nicely.

That said, I am a former B&W owner and the Bryston 4B-SST matches up very well with the N802.

-KJ

thomaspf · « **Reply #11 on:** 30 Dec 2005, 06:52 pm »

If you are in the mood of upgrading your speakers the advice from KJ is right on. Listen to many of them and don't get trapped into hype about diamond tweeters, titanium membranes and other useless vodoo.

While you are at it you might want to listen to some Harbeth speakers. They lack the hype but in my opinion sound really nice at a decent price. Monitor 30s for a smaller room and 40s for a larger setting.

Cheers

Thomas

PavelL · « **Reply #12 on:** 30 Dec 2005, 10:46 pm »

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I will listen to as many speakers as possible during the next Hi-Fi Show. Now back to the Bryston amps. Anyone tried vertical amplification? Meaning one 4 b sst per speaker with one channel driving the lows and the other one the mids with highs? Or two 7 b sst MUCH better than two 4 b sst even in vertical biamplification? Or should vertical bi-amping be avoided?

Happy New Year everyone!!!

dan_lo · « **Reply #13 on:** 30 Dec 2005, 11:02 pm »

Quote from: PavelL

Thanks for your reply! I still want to further improve my ENJOYMENT. So what about bi-amlification? What is your "testament"? And differences between 802s and 801s? Thanks and a Happy New Year!

You are going into quite expensive teritory. In these prices you should also check PMC full range speakers.
I've heard both the 802D and the IB2,MB2. Frankly, I think that even the IB2 is much better than the 802d.

In any case, Good luck and enjoy.

PavelL · « **Reply #14 on:** 30 Dec 2005, 11:51 pm »

Quote from: dan_lo

You are going into quite expensive teritory.

Thanks, I'm already there. So, what musical material do recommend? That WILL show PMC's superiority? I really do not need one system for jazz and the other one for classical music and so on. I can listen to my 802s and then hear the same music on PMC and make some kind of a comparisson/I know... different rooms, amps and so on it WILL sound different/ I'm affraid I'm getting way off-topic really... My original question was about Bryston amps...

Quote

Frankly, I think that even the IB2 is much better than the 802d

By the way, what did you mean by "even". It's about the same amount $$$
Thanks

PorkpieHat · « **Reply #15 on:** 31 Dec 2005, 10:25 am »

One thing to consider if you are deciding between 4BSST and 7BSST is that the 7BSST puts out more class A watts before going to A/B, although this would be of most benefit with higher effciency speakers - say for example Zu speakers, which have attracted a lot of favourable comments here and elsewhere.. However the 7BSSTs will gobble more energy and produce more heat. Remember that when auditioning Bryston amps, that short speaker cable lengths are best. If you are getting a demo where they are using 30 foot speaker cables, you will not get the best sound these amps can produce. Unfortunately, there are a lot of audio shops that do this.

If you are going into the PMC price range, you may also want to have a listen to Dynaudios. I am using my 4BSST/BP25 with a pair of Dynaudio Confidence C1s and I am very happy. CD Player is an Ayre CX-7 - also very happy.

As for music, I have always found classical to be the best for showing what a system can or cannot do. However, if you are not familiar with classical music, it might not do you any good. The best thing to do is to use music you are familiar with. Get a very well mastered CD so you know that any bad sound is not coming from a bad CD instead of a bad system. Take also a badly mastered CD - especially if you like rock music since so much rock music is poorly produced. If you do go with classical, for your good ones you can take something from Reference Recordings, EMI Classical or Naxos. Best to pick DDD CDs produced after 1995. For bad classical CDs you can't go wrong with Virgin Classics. Probably the worst quality CDs on the market.

Sorry I can't advise you if you are into vinyl. Maybe someone else?

dan_lo · « **Reply #16 on:** 31 Dec 2005, 03:17 pm »

Quote from: PavelL

By the way, what did you mean by "even". It's about the same amount $$$
Thanks

Correct. But at least in the UK the price of the 802D is closer to the MB2.

nicolasb · « **Reply #17 on:** 3 Jan 2006, 10:30 pm »

Quote

don't get trapped into hype about diamond tweeters, titanium membranes and other useless vodoo.

I've not listened to B&W's diamond tweeters in person, but everyone who has has simply raved about them. The distortion figures are astonishing: <0.5% THD at 100kHz. That's hardly "useless voodoo". The 802D is generally reckoned to be at least as good as the old Nautilus 800 (better in the treble, not so good in the deep bass), and a very large jump ahead of the Nautilus 802. In fact, even the 803D is supposed to match or surpass the old N802. I own Nautilus 803 speakers myself, and it's the tweeter that's the real weakness with them. The old 802 is much better in the mid-range, but the tweeter is the same.

caleb · « **Reply #18 on:** 4 Jan 2006, 05:08 am »

I have 802s at the fron of my system driven by a pair of 7B SST.
I am lucky to be able to have only a 1 metre interconnect and a 1 metre speaker cable, so this is about as good as it gets from a cable length perspective.
My rear 802s and centre are driven from a TAG 250x3.

The Brystons were the upgrade for the fronts which were opriginally driven by the TAG, and what a difference it made.

BTW the Brystons do get hot when driven hard for a couple of hours!

PavelL · « **Reply #19 on:** 4 Jan 2006, 11:31 am »

Quote from: nicolasb

I've not listened to B&W's diamond tweeters in person, but everyone who has has simply raved about them. The distortion figures are astonishing: <0.5% THD at 100kHz. That's hardly "useless voodoo". The 802D is generally reckoned to be at least as good as the old Nautilus 800 (better in the treble, not so good in the deep bass), and a very large jump ahead of the Nautilus 802. In fact, even the 803D is supposed to match or surpass the old N802. I own Nautilus 803 speakers myself, and it's the tweeter ...

I guess the END result is what matters. Not the membrane or the material the tweeter is made of... Implementation is important. Crossovers DO matter. Marketologists find smart ways of addressing the general public - everyone starts talking diamonds, while those who know a thing or two about building speakers may smile... Again, I'm not saying the new series are bad.