RM40's, a little too accurate?

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dltonya

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RM40's, a little too accurate?
« on: 26 Dec 2005, 07:19 pm »
I built the RM40's from a kit about 5 weeks ago and have spent the time inbetween breaking in the speakers.  I biamped them with a Classe CA-100 on the mid/treble and an Acurus A-250 for the bass.  Would I have liked to have had two Classe amps, yes.  But then again the bass section of the RM40's will definitely benefit from the added power that the Acurus provides.

The problem I've discovered with the speakers is that they are so darned accurate that they highlight every single minute flaw in a recording.  In upgrading from a pair of PSB Stratus Silver's, I was expecting an improvement, but not of this magnitude.  The Stratus Silver's have garnered much praise over the years for their accuracy and neutrality, however the RM40's are just light years beyond them in terms of clarity.

Another of my problems is that I have spent the last 15 years remastering over 1000 live recordings (you call'em bootlegs) as a hobby.  And as such, I'm hyper-sensitive to sonic anomalies in the same way Pavlov's dog was sensitive to a dinner bell!  The RM40's were a tricky build for me because I had a hard time envisioning the wiring in my head.  So everytime I hear a flaw in the sound, I'm worried it is due to a faulty driver or a fault in my assembly.

Each and everytime this happens, I take the recording to one of my audio workstations and discover that it is indeed a flaw in the recording.  In fact, the ribbons used in the RM40's are more revealing than my Sennheiser HD-600 head phones!    

I guess it is going to take longer to break me in than it took to break in the RM40's.  All these recordings I've listened to hundreds of times on my PSB's without hearing flaws are now becoming very obvious on the RM40's.  I'm just going to have to get used to the unbelievable accuracy of the RM40's because I love the sound from these speakers!

A picture of my system:  http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vevol&1131638174

Marbles

RM40's, a little too accurate?
« Reply #1 on: 26 Dec 2005, 07:36 pm »
They are accurate!!!! You might find them more pleasing in the long run if you have some tubes in your system.

ScottMayo

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RM40's, a little too accurate?
« Reply #2 on: 26 Dec 2005, 07:47 pm »
I have the RM/x and the RM-30's. There is some 70s rock I listen to, that I deliberately kick in the preamp's synthetic surround sound modes. It has the effect of softening some of the harshness and gunk that ham-handed mixes give you.

But well recorded stuff is such a treat.  :mrgreen: The first time you hear a bass fret buzzing so sharply and clearly you think there's something vibrating in your room, you'll end up grinning. Well recorded female vocals become an erotic experience. Cymbals sound like cymbals. It's just *cool*.

John Casler

Re: RM40's, a little too accurate?
« Reply #3 on: 26 Dec 2005, 08:24 pm »
Quote from: dltonya
 
The problem I've discovered with the speakers is that they are so darned accurate that they highlight every single minute flaw in a recording ...


I'll send this right over to the "VMPS complaint dept". :o

Let me see....how should I word it.  

Brian, please make the speaker "less accurate" :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Seriously, I think you are on the right track and your speakers will break in a bit more over the next few months.  This will not reduce their accuracy, but might take a slight bit of "edge" off the sound.

Tubes, (especially in the front end) as suggested, are quite popular with VMPS owners since it allows them to get a nice tube midrange without sacrificing high frequencies and resolution.

As you continue to set up, and breaking in the pair, you might also find "slight" convergence (toe in) adjustments will "smooth" out things, without (again) sacrificing accuracy and inner detail.

Additionally, if you get the CDWG the speakers take on a whole new dimension, again without losing the ability to "hear deeper" into the recording.

dltonya

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RM40's, a little too accurate?
« Reply #4 on: 26 Dec 2005, 10:17 pm »
You are all correct, my post was partially sarchastic.  In all honestly I'm well acquainted with the various flaws of 70's classic rock recordings.  With a CD collection now over 3400 recordings, I've just about heard it all.  I can hear the bad splices, mismatched levels in overdubs, and such.

The flaws most commonly brought out of recordings by the RM40's are actually from more recent recordings, say in the last 10 years.  Most of that due to recording engineers trying to see just how "HOT" they can make a recording.  I've found  many a recording where they've definitely clipped the signal.  Known culprits:

Rush - Vapor Trails
Uriah Heep - Sea of Light
Threshold - Critical Energy
Dead Soul Tribe - The Dead Word

There are others, just that these are the ones I remember now.  To be honest, these bands have such a background that these problems such as "HOT" clippling shouldn't exist.  The first two are so bad that they did sound flawed even on my PSB's.  The latter two didn't sound flawed on the PSB's, but definitely showed up on the RM40's.  

The problem for me is that the type of sonic flaws exhibited by these recordings are functions of distortion.  The kind of distortion that makes you wonder if there is equipment in your system that is malfunctioning.  Being an audiophile, I tend to get distraught everytime there is a sonic anomally I can't readily explain.  My current system is audio nirvana and anything that spoils it makes me uncomfortable.  That's why it is going to take a while to get used to hearing flaws in recordings and not attribute that to flaws in the system.   :scratch:

warnerwh

RM40's, a little too accurate?
« Reply #5 on: 27 Dec 2005, 12:55 am »
Welcome to the Club!  The RM 40's will let you know any weaknesses in anything.  The first thing I knew I had to do had been to upgrade my cd player and amp as my room is acoustically excellent already.  In both cases the improvements were obvious and well worth it.

You have a beautiful system.  Like John said above the speaker position is the most important thing to get done first.  Once you get them dialed in, which can take weeks in my case, improving room acoustics would be a good idea.  Being you put your RM 40's together from kits then you will have no problem making some bass traps.  Getting rid of all first reflections and bass traps alone will yield another significant and very audible step forward.  

 I'd also recommend spending 300 bucks on a Behringer DEQ 2496.  With the bass traps the bass sounds much better. The surprising part though is that the midrange will also be alot clearer.  Also no matter how well your room is treated there's still going to be peaks and dips.  There's an auto eq mode where you can set the desired curve and then you can use the parametric eq to tweak the sound to your taste. The cost of the Behringer unit with a microphone of 300 bucks is in my opinion the best tweak and bargain of the decade.  

 If you need any help be sure to let us know here as there's many years of experience in this forum.

rblnr

RM40's, a little too accurate?
« Reply #6 on: 27 Dec 2005, 02:53 pm »
Yeah, more than any other speaker I've owned, the 40's make good recordings great and bad recordings really bad.  Bad usually manifesting itself as flat and overcompressed-sounding.

I second the call on room treatment.  You can do it relatively expensive, or cheap as I did making homemade panels and bass traps w/materials from Markertek.  People spend thousands on cable and cords, and it doesn't come close to a few hundred bucks spent on room correction.