New to Van Alstine- HELP!!!

alpha_03 · « **on:** 23 Dec 2005, 03:52 am »

Hi everyone and Merry Christmas!!!!

I have a few questions, I hope you dont mind helping me out?

I am new to tube gear- sort of- .

Any way, I just bought a perfect, yes thats right perfect, Van Alstine Super PAS 3 in the box at an estate sale, it may be new- I am not sure, although I have no manual.

I was wondering what are the speaker selection modes refering to- there is a rectangle, a square, and a small rectangle, and then a+b, a, b, mono, however, I can only select 4 from the above, that is to say the rectangles and the a+b, none of the others- is this normal?

On the back of the unit it states "omega output buffers installed", what does this mean?

I can supply serial number if needed. My only wish are two, that this unit was of the typical audio gear sizing, and that it was black in color, other wise, it is very impressive for its date of manufacture. It rivals, and surpasses most of my other hi-end pre amps in the trebble and midrange, all be it the bass isnt as good (tight) as a few pre's I have on hand.

Any pertinient info would be appreciated.

Thank you, And Happy Holidays.

Alpha_03

omniclassic · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 Dec 2005, 08:18 pm »

I believe that the switch you are reffering to is a carry over from the old original Dynaco Pre-amp from which the Van Alstine Super Pas series was derived,.... although the VA circuits are far superior to the original.

The switch controls the width of the stereo image from full stereo to mono and a couple stops in between. Unless you have a reason to listen in mono or something in between, just leave it in the stereo position.

I recently repaired my own Super Pas 3 after it lay dormant for almost 18 years,... had to replace an ailing power transformer. It is still one of my favorite pre-amps and sounds great even after all those years. What was I waiting for?

Ben

alpha_03 · « **Reply #2 on:** 24 Dec 2005, 01:10 am »

Thank you for your reply.

I was wondering, does Van Alstine produce a preamp that can run two power amplifiers? And if so, does it incorporate any type of crossover?

I really like the sound of my unit, however, I would very much like to use both of my amplifiers.

Because my speaker system is custom (80Hz low pass Active, and 100Hz high pass Active <2 seperate enclosures>, via my B&K PT-5) I would really like to use this type of feature in a Van Alstine TUBE design if possible.

Granted I could purchace an electronic x-over but then the point of using tubes as my source would be lost in the SS design of the x-over.

And before you ask, I am running two Proton D1200's, they are very powerful amplifiers, have nearly no noise floor (120dB), and are rather nice to look at- they are very revealing and truthful amplifiers, all be it, some might disagree with me. I can drive them both into 2ohm loads all day, and I have done this many times over the years.

I am not a cable freak, as I dont buy into all the "jazz" concerning cables, unless it's when considering long runs of cabling, which is not a concern for me, all be it, I am running good quality Monster cables for all inter connects and speaker termination.

I have compared many many amplifiers over the years and their proposed ratings (LOL), my Protons beat many of todays 300WPC hi-end components with ease.

Suffice it to say, I do not want to change amplifiers- I like what I have.

Again, I thank any one whom responds for their time, and, helping an uneducated "new to tube gear" fella out.

Edit: BTW, I have been told that it is possible to change the tubes out for even better sound- any advice concerning this? Thank you.

WEEZ · « **Reply #3 on:** 24 Dec 2005, 02:45 pm »

I think that all AVA preamplifiers have (2) line outputs.

You might want to check the input z of the Proton amps if using a tubed pre-amp, though. Too low (and in parallel) you might sacrifice sound quality especially at low frequencies...

WEEZ

avahifi · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 Dec 2005, 04:27 pm »

First of all, "Omega output buffers installed" means the preamp has solid state unity gain buffer boards installed on the output of both the line and phono sections. These isolate the tubes from difficult loads and improve the linearity of the tube by about 10 dB as they are looking at a very high input impedance of the buffer stage rather than nasty amplifier loads.

So, with the buffers installed, you have no problem driving two solid state amplifiers at the same time, the buffers will not care what the load is.

The original PAS chassis does not have two sets of audio outputs, so you will need to purchase a couple of "Y" connecters at Radio Shack to give you two sets of audio outputs.

The blend control markings were described accurately, they show the varying degree of stereo separation. Normally set the control at the widest rectangle for full stereo performance.

If you send me your e-mail address I can send you the owners manual for the preamp.

Enjoy it. It uses four 12AX7/ECC83 tubes and one 12X4 rectifier tube.

Merry Christmas.

alpha_03 · « **Reply #5 on:** 24 Dec 2005, 07:37 pm »

Wow, now that is customer service!!!!!!!!!!

I assumed as much concerning the "blend" control and tube buffers, all be it, this "blend control" is an odd feature to me. Is it possible to remove this from the audio path, or is it considered an "uncolored" circut? One other thing, how does this unit compare to your newer gear- sonically?

I thank you very much, my email address is alpha_03@cox.net

Merry Christmas to you and yours as well.

avahifi · « **Reply #6 on:** 25 Dec 2005, 05:29 pm »

Super Pas Three owners manual sent to you via e-mail. Enjoy.

To answer your question as to how it performs in comparison to our new Transcendence Eight vacuum tube preamplifier, the new T8 is day and night better, a true state of the art performer at a rational price.

Frank Van Alstine

alpha_03 · « **Reply #7 on:** 25 Dec 2005, 07:30 pm »

Thanks a bunch, Mr, Van Alstine.

I do not see a link at your web site for the preamp you mentioned?

avahifi · « **Reply #8 on:** 26 Dec 2005, 04:33 pm »

Because of my slow slow slow recovery from my recent surgery, I simply have not had time yet for the creative work to get my web site updated. Please call me at 651-330-9871 for info on our new products.

Frank Van Alstine

alpha_03 · « **Reply #9 on:** 27 Dec 2005, 02:52 am »

I'm sorry I wasnt aware you were down. My appologies. I too have been through a few bad years (got run over by a mini van- nearly killed me). I hope you are up and on the road to recovery, Lord knows it took me nearly 2.5 years to even function close to what I was prior.

However, I recieved your email Mr, Van Alstine, will do, and thank you.

Oh, and BTW my manual for the Protons states:

Rated Power 20Hz to 20kHz 100wpc

(Dynamic Power at 8Ohm/ 4Ohm/2Ohm)

1) I.H.F. standard 20ms duration 540w/ 1000w/ 1500w
2) 100ms Duration: 450w/ 640w/ 800w
3) 200ms Duration: 380w/ 500w/ 620w
Duty Cycle 500ms

Dynamic Headroom at 8-4-2 Ohm: 7.3dB
THD at rated power: .02%

Damping factor greater than 150

S/N ratio 120dB

Input Resistance / Capacitance: 15k OHM / 220pF

Input Sensitivity: 1V

Hope this helps

And again, Thank you very much.

skrivis · « **Reply #10 on:** 27 Dec 2005, 04:05 pm »

Quote from: alpha_03

I'm sorry I wasnt aware you were down. My appologies. I too have been through a few bad years (got run over by a mini van- nearly killed me). I hope you are up and on the road to recovery, Lord knows it took me nearly 2.5 years to even function close to what I was prior.

However, I recieved your email Mr, Van Alstine, will do, and thank you.

Oh, and BTW my manual for the Protons states:

Rated Power 20Hz to 20kHz 100wpc

(Dynamic Power at 8Ohm/ 4Ohm/2Ohm)

1) I.H.F. standard 20ms duration 540w/ ...

Sounds like the power supply isn't very stiff. Lots of sag...

Your preamp shouldn't have any trouble driving a pair of these.

skrivis · « **Reply #11 on:** 27 Dec 2005, 04:30 pm »

Quote from: alpha_03

Thank you for your reply.

I was wondering, does Van Alstine produce a preamp that can run two power amplifiers? And if so, does it incorporate any type of crossover?

I really like the sound of my unit, however, I would very much like to use both of my amplifiers.

Because my speaker system is custom (80Hz low pass Active, and 100Hz high pass Active <2 seperate enclosures>, via my B&K PT-5) I would really like to use this type of feature in a Van Alstine TUBE design if possible.

Granted ...

You could do passive low-level x-overs. There are also tube x-overs available.

avahifi · « **Reply #12 on:** 27 Dec 2005, 06:10 pm »

Any of our preamplfiers can drive two power amplifiers, with a few exceptions.

The case of two Proton amps with very low 15K ohm input impedance each (7.5K ohm in parallel) might be a tough load for any pure vacuum tube preamplifier, but no problem for the Ultra series or OmegaStar solid state series.

Frank Van Alstine

alpha_03 · « **Reply #13 on:** 28 Dec 2005, 02:00 am »

Quote

Sounds like the power supply isn't very stiff. Lots of sag...

LOL, you're the same guy from audiogon's website, now please- go away, I dont want to buy your stuff.

The Protons use TWO transformers, a TRUE dual mono amplifier in a single chasis.

Quote

Your preamp shouldn't have any trouble driving a pair of these.

Odd, Mr, Van Alstine says otherwise, and I belive him.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #14 on:** 28 Dec 2005, 06:16 am »

Frank,

I didn't notice any listed impedance posted for the 240/3ex...is that because it is largely a non-issue whatever active pre-amp you are using for it?

I use a Dynaco PAS-4 (circa 1998 - made by PANOR, the owner of the Dynaco name these days) tube pre right now with it.

I removed the set of fuses for the 3rd channel...don't know if it helped, but it certainly didn't hurt any. Thanks for the tip.

Is there any benefit to uprating to a 4 amp fuse on the speaker outputs....it's plenty loud enough now. What are the relative merits of doing so vs. not doing so....the manual explains it a bit.

Sorry for the hijacking...but my questions are kinda' related to original post (or, at least my first question is

)

avahifi · « **Reply #15 on:** 28 Dec 2005, 06:27 pm »

The input impedance of the OmegaStar series of amplifiers (all of them) is 24K ohm pure resistive load (no capacitve element, independent of feedback loop, independent of output load, even independent of whether the amplifier is turned on or off. A really easy load for any source.

Fuses, if you substitute 4 amp fuses for the 3 amp speaker fuses all you do is increase the chances of blowing a speaker or internal amplifier circuits in the case of a fault situation. Not a good idea and will make no improvement in the sound quality.

Frank Van Alstine

skrivis · « **Reply #16 on:** 28 Dec 2005, 08:11 pm »

Quote from: alpha_03

Quote
Sounds like the power supply isn't very stiff. Lots of sag...

LOL, you're the same guy from audiogon's website, now please- go away, I dont want to buy your stuff.

Not sure what you mean by that... I don't build equipment for sale.

Quote

Quote
Your preamp shouldn't have any trouble driving a pair of these.
Odd, Mr, Van Alstine says otherwise, and I belive him.

Your preamp has the output current buffers, so should have no problem driving the 2 amps, unless I'm missing something here...

avahifi · « **Reply #17 on:** 29 Dec 2005, 12:07 am »

A Transcendence Eight vacuum tube preamplifier does NOT have output current buffers. The Ultra SL and EC preamps have a low output impedance high current patented line stage using the combined best qualities of a triode and power mosfet. The Ultras can drive silly loads with no problem.

Some of our older preamps did have solid state current buffers after the tube stages and that worked well, but not as well as the Ultra series nor as well as the T8 as long as the T8 is looking at a normal load (10K ohm or above).

Frank Van Alstine

skrivis · « **Reply #18 on:** 29 Dec 2005, 08:41 pm »

Quote from: avahifi

A Transcendence Eight vacuum tube preamplifier does NOT have output current buffers. The Ultra SL and EC preamps have a low output impedance high current patented line stage using the combined best qualities of a triode and power mosfet. The Ultras can drive silly loads with no problem.

But the OP originally said that they had an old SuperPAS 3 with output current buffers - thus my response.

I _was_ aware that the T-8 is all-tube and doesn't have buffers, but thanks for clarifying it.

It's a bit confusing because the Ultra gear is FV and the Ultimate amp is all tube. The all-tube preamp is then the T-8.

Maybe the T-8 and Ultimate should become part of an "Ultimate Tube" series and you'd have an "Ultimate Tube ST-70" or "Ultimate Tube SL," etc? That would tell people these are the all-tube models.

It's kind of limiting to name things "Ultimate" or "Omega."

hehe