[Brad V]

Hi,

How many times do you look back and say, “I wish they heard my system now”?

When I first got my Excelarray’s, I just plopped them down 1 foot from the wall and they sounded so neutral, accurate, seamless, etc…

The room modes weren’t there, like they are with regular Monitors or Floorstanders, so basically the room wasn’t an issue. Since this was the case, I didn’t mess with positioning my speakers, like I have in the past with other speakers.

I was so elated with the sound and it was the best I have heard. The detail was right there with Sennheiser HD600s and I was in heaven or so I thought. I had several people over to hear them and basically the reports were glowing, albeit a few negative comments about that they weren’t musical. Well, I just let that lie and go about my business.

A friend of mine has been after me to try the Spectron Musician II amp. He came up Denver and heard the Excelarray’s and just took delivery of his about a month ago (I know Tyson is awaiting to hear them in Denver). Well, I started thinking towards a new amp and I also started thinking about the Tact RCS 2.2X (Room Correction System) that I had. It made a huge improvement with my past speakers, however not as big with my Excelarrays. I thought, if I could only get the improvement without the Tact. Basically the major improvement it made with my other speakers, was taking out the bass mode problem in the room. It did make soundstaging better and better vocals. So, I took a vacation day and worked on positioning and measuring with the Tact. I ended up with the speakers, 3 feet from the wall instead of 1. I also now have them toed in, where they weren’t toed in at all before. After I did this, the measurements basically measured flat. What did this do for the sound? It made the soundstage wider and deeper. The imaging improved tremendously. The midrange had also improved so much.

So, I took the Tact out and went directly thru my tube preamp from my DAC, to my Odyssey Stratos Monos. Having just the tube preamp in the pictures sweetened up the mids. Now they weren’t dead neutral sound, however more enjoyable to listen to.

Here’s when it really gets good.

Enter Hantra into the picture. He recently got married and offered to let me borrow his 18 Watt Audio Note Soro Integrated amp, while he was on his honeymoon. I thought, what the heck, the Excelarray builder and designer said that they were tube friend at a 10 ohm impedance to 1,000hz. So, I got it. The first night I just used the preamp section to go to my Odyssey Stratos Monos. I wasn’t very impressed and wasn’t expecting much the next day, when I went directly from the 18 Watt SET to my speakers. Saturday came and I hooked it up. I turned on the first song and I sat there in utter amazement. How could something like this, make so much of a difference. What did it do? The Soundstage layers became unreal. I felt like I could walk out and stand in a performer’s space. Also the midrange was to die for. Hantra came over a few days after he got back from his honeymoon and I believe he was totally amazed. The last time he was over, I had the speakers pushed 1 foot from the wall and firing straight ahead. I sat and watched the disbelief on his face. I don’t think he could have imagined such a change.

That started my quest to look at other SETs and other amps. I have listened to different PP tube gear before and heard the better soundstaging. Some people told me to look at some SS amps, like the Pass Aleph line, Gamut D200 and others, as they reported SET like attributes. All I can say is that those people can believe what they want. I did listen to them, as well as some 300B and 845 SET amps. I ended up getting my new/used Bel Canto SET40 2 days ago. I have to tell you that this is a match made in heaven. It has close to 40 Watts a channel, however I haven’t been able to get it to clip and I have played music thru it, louder than anyone has ever heard music played at my house. Of course I played things louder with my SS amp, however never with anyone else over.

Now I see what all the fuss is about with SETs. I would love to compare these with the Halcros in my room. I wouldn’t be surprised if I like the SETs better. The midrange is so intimate and liquid, that you just bask in its glory. The soundstage has to be experienced. At first I thought I was hearing more detail with this. I then switched back to the SS Monos and I heard the instrument, however it didn’t stand out like on the SET. What is happening, is each macro detail is defined and heard in its own space, which enables you to hear it more clearly.

Now, I feel almost embarrased, that people heard it the other way. That’s how much of an improvement there is, with the way it is now.  It is now extremely more musical, image out the ying yang and a soundstage to die for.

So, now I’ve finally done, what I have told other people for a long time. That is that the room and getting your speakers positioned correctly is the most important thing. It’s just that the Excelarrays lulled me into a trap, of being so room agreeable.

I guess I’ve rambled on for long enough.

Have a great day,

Brad

[audiojerry]

Brad, sounds like you are another convert to the dark side - welcome aboard - another bottlehead?

Be careful, you are going to upset some folks - look out for the Odyssey mafia; there may already be a contract on you.  

[JoshK]

For me it was going the other way, replacing the Cary V12i with a Spectron Musician II on my RM40's.

[SFDude]

Brad, you came to nearly the same conclusion I did with my Merlin VSMs. I had been running them with 110 WPC Push Pull monoblocks with 6550 tubes. They were nice sounding but didn't have the midrange magic that I was expecting to hear from tubes. I recently got this small amp that uses a pair of EL34s for 12 WPC of SET sound...

...what I got was all which I had missed and more. How could this tiny beast, driving 89db efficient speakers outshine the 110 WPC monoblock monsters in almost all areas?

I'll definitely be intrigued in getting other SET amps in here (45s, 2A3's perhaps?) but I don't think I can turn back to SS or PP tubes any more (I've gone through a number of SS and PP tube amps in the past).

Anyway, great to hear you're "enlightenment" with respect to your gear!

[nathanm]

I ended up with the speakers, 3 feet from the wall instead of 1. I also now have them toed in, where they weren’t toed in at all before. After I did this, the measurements basically measured flat. What did this do for the sound? It made the soundstage wider and deeper. The imaging improved tremendously. The midrange had also improved so much.

If this is the system you are referring to http://members.aol.com/bvirgil311/excel002.jpg

Then I'm not surprised at all!  I'd say that moving the speakers out and toed in 'twas what did the bulk of the improvement in my estimation, not to say the other stuff wasn't important.  You've got a giant wooden and glass-paneled reflector there between the speakers, that's no good. Heh!

Same thing happened to me recently.  Had a friend over and listened to a record with the speakers in one position, sounded okay.  Then after he leaves I tweak it some more.  Now it sounds better!  Dammit, and nobody around! Ha!  I'm really sick of eyeballing positioning.  I think I'm gonna make a huge equilateral triangle out of string or wood strips or something, flop it on the floor and stick the speakers where they're supposed to be!  Maybe some crafty vendor could sell an area rug with proper speaker positioning markings on it?  And unfortunately the pentagram isn't equilateral or I'd use that.  Dammit.

[markC]

Great to hear that you are that much closer to "Nirvana" Brad. I have heard a couple of set's and although I am not all that experienced with them, I liked what I heard. Like you say, you could get up and stand beside the vocalist, BUT, I did find myself waiting for the stand up bass to enter the stage. How's the bottom end on your set-up? Please don't tell me that it's all there or I'll be scrambling to get more cash together!

[Brad V]

Hi Nathan,

>>> Then I'm not surprised at all! I'd say that moving the speakers out and toed in 'twas what did the bulk of the improvement in my estimation, not to say the other stuff wasn't important. You've got a giant wooden and glass-paneled reflector there between the speakers, that's no good. Heh!

Actually, the big surprise was this. I was expecting to move them out and find the right spot. Then I figured the wife would want them moved back and out of the way. She didn't say a word when she saw how far they were pulled out and that made me a happy camper.

As far as the improvement with pulling them out and toeing them in in comparison to the SET amp. The pulling them out improved soundstage width, depth and more midrange. The SET added better soundstage specificity, layering and midrange magic.

I'll be really interested in seeing what happens when my friend Gary in Denver compares a SET to his Spectron Musician II. Maybe Tyson and Gary can take amps over each others place and compare.

Have a great day and thanks to everyone,

Brad

[Brad V]

Hi Mark,

>>> How's the bottom end on your set-up?

The bottom end is surprising good with the SET. I had heard soft bass with some other SETs, however it is extremely realistic. I used to play in Jazz bands, so I know what a good standup sounds like. I believe my SS tightened up the bass a little too much and didn't get to hear the real overtones. I used to be a jazz guitarist and fell to the dark side about 15 years ago and moved to playing classical guitar.

Have a great day,

Brad

[Bombaywalla]

Hi Guys,

I'm a friend of Brad V's & have been over to Brad's place many times to listen to his system. I have seen & heard it evolve over the last 6-8 months. Week before last when I heard it, he had just received his ARC SP6 after heavy modifications. Boy, did that oldie-goldie SP6A sound good or what? Coupling & power supply caps were the major modifications. Compared to pre-modification, the present sound is much, much better - soundstage is closer to the listener & it feels like I have moved up from the 15th row to the 2nd row of a concert hall. Bass is much tighter & more extended, mids are liquid & the SP6A mid-range lushness has been retained. The highs are more extended & the instruments like sax, piano, trumpet have bite to them. Basically, it sounds like a brand new preamp. I'm quite sure that it could put some of ARC's preamps & other brand-name preamps to shame. The Excel array speakers were pulled out 3' from the back wall & toed-in so that the sound from both intersected at the listener's head. At 1st I thought it might be too much toe-in but this seems to work best for Brad. I tried the same in my system & the soundstage closed in a bit.

Brad's vinyl system using the Aries-SP6A-Odyssey monos-Excel arrays was a very good system. However, Nathan pointed out, that entertainment center never allowed the speakers to disappear. A shame really 'cuz they are so expensive & sound pretty neutral but were performing sub-par with his setup.

The biggest upgrade came by pulling the speakers out to 3' from the rear wall. All electronics remained unchanged. Wow! Can speaker placement make this much difference? You bet! All these "pros" weren't talking thru their hats - there was much truth in speaker placement philosophy.

Hantra's Audionote Soro SE created some real magic  in Brad's system. The mids became hauntingly real & one seemed to reach out & touch the performer. Bass was pretty damn good but not as tightly controlled as with his Stratos monos. It was unbelieveable sound from an 18W/ch integrated. I had never heard a SET before but now I could relate to all this SET fuss. Another stunner when I heard the Soro in Brad's system - he was using a single run of Home Depot 16-AWG speaker wire rather than his CAT5 Chris venHaus speaker cables!!!  

I have yet to hear Brad's system w/ his newly acquired Bel Canto SETi40 but I can imagine that it must have taken the perf. a notches up! Brad must be grinning away like a Cheshire cat!

Pulling the speakers out helped a ton but modifying the SP6A helped even more & brought the whole system to life. Presently, an excellent sounding system with high calibre electronics. Brad's electronics might not be the most expensive & the most stunning in looks (haven't seen the SETi40 yet) but Brad has found that (elusive) synergy among all his components.

[Hantra]

Well, I must chime in here, and throw my thoughts into the ring.

I think something Bombay said the other night really sunk in for me about Brad's system.  He started telling me about the differences between the Odyssey, and the Symphonic Line amps, and a word he used for the Odyssey was "uninvolving".  That's exactly how I have felt about Brad's system until I heard it with my Audio Note.  I think the amps are to blame more then the rest of the system.  

The other night, it was fantastic with the speakers pulled out, and the modded SP-6 in.  But I was still unattached to it emotionally.  The night I heard it with the AN, it was a revelation, and a great demonstration of what Brad's sytem is capable of.

I can't wait to hear it with the Bel Canto!  In fact, I would love to hear that in my system as well!  I jumped back from tubes to solid state, and I would switch again if I founf something I liked better.  I am not attached to anything if I find something better.  

Except for my wife  

[Rocket]

hi brad,

glad to hear you've made improvements with your system.  i've heard the bel canto digital amps many times they are very transparent,  i'm sure their tube amps are as good.

regards

rocket

[Brad V]

HI Rocket,

I have heard 2 Bel Canto Digital amps in my system and I can tell you that the SET40 blows them both away. I really shouldn't say blows them away, as the digital amps were really good. The SET40 betters the digital with a very layered, more deep soundstage, better midrange with intimacy that is off the charts.

Thanks,

Brad

[Marbles]

Well, I must chime in here, and throw my thoughts into the ring.

I think something Bombay said the other night really sunk in for me about Brad's system.  He started telling me about the differences between the Odyssey, and the Symphonic Line amps, and a word he used for the Odyssey was "uninvolving".  That's exactly how I have felt about Brad's system until I heard it with my Audio Note.  I think the amps are to blame more then the rest of the system.  

The other night, it was fantastic with the speakers pulled out, and the modded SP-6 in.  But I was still unattached to it emotionally.  The night I heard it with the AN, it was a revelation, and a great demonstration of what Brad's sytem is capable of.

I have both Symphonic Line and Odyssey amps and I will say that they both have sonically similar charectoristics.  In the Odyssey/SL line the higher up you go the better bass control you get until you get to the Kraft line of amps, then you get a more neutral cleaner window to the music.

Having said that, there appears to be a synergy with ribbon drivers and tube amps.

This can be seen with GR Research Alpha's and Dodd amps, VMPS and  different tube equipment (I heard a Radii amp and it was great) and the Brad V's Excellaray's with tube gear.

It seems that the lack of distortion, or at least the lowered distortion of the ribbon drivers is too anaylitic for our brains to somehow enjoy without adding some higher distortion somewhere else in the signal path. Maybe it is the distortion that helps our brains pick up the placement of the players in the soundstage?

Anyway, I'm not sure I would blame the Odyssey amps anymore than any other SS amp.  What I would say is it appears that a trend has emerged that tube amps and ribbon drivers are extremely synergistic.

[Brad V]

My friend has the Symphonic Line Kraft 250 and had the Odyssey Stratos Monoblocks before. He is using it with the Newform R645s. The soundstage is very nice and the sound is very detailed. I also heard almost the identical floor layout that I heard with the Kraft 250s, except this other person was using the Magnum 120s. What I heard there was a much deeper and layered soundstage.

Both had good sound, however I would have chose the Magnum 120s over the Kraft 250 for those speakers.