[John B]

I was talking with an audiophile acquaintance of mine, who also happens to be an audio dealer, about Sahuaro power cords.   He had picked up the line after trying out the product on the gear he sells.   He suggested I try out a pair of them, saying that having two components in the audio chain using these cords produced optimum results.   When I told him I had AVA gear (T7 pre-amp and 350EX amp) and that they had fixed, two prong type cords, he expressed some disbelief that especially the amp would have been designed using a, as he put it, “cheap” cord.   He said all quality components use the 3-prong type.   He also suggested that I take both pre-amp and amp to an audio repair shop and get the 3-prong type retrofitted to the units.    I’ll admit I was surprised when I got the 350EX amp and saw the thin two-prong cord.   All my previous amps had the beefy 3-prong type cord.   After hearing the amp though, my concerns were eliminated.   Still I am curious at the design choice of the thinner cord, and its fixed nature.   I would not feel comfortable having the AVA products retro-fitted with the 3-prong type though, especially since Frank mentioned to me that the pre-amp power section/cord design is critical to the sound quality of the T7.

[Tyson]

IEC's connectors are just another interface that should be avioded if possible.  Wiring a power cord directly to the amp gives a better interface.  Would getting a "better" power cord give you even better sound than the stock cord?  IMO, maybe (but AVA certainly doesn't think so).  But, you will void your warrantee to find out.  Personally, I still have the stock cords - I'm too busy trying different tubes right now. . .

[Troy]

Even though the AVA folks don't believe in specialty cable products, maybe they can install the powercord for you allowing you to keep the warranty. According to their website they use Kimber becuase of the cable shoot out they had a few years back.

I was talking with an audiophile acquaintance of mine, who also happens to be an audio dealer, about Sahuaro power cords.   He had picked up the line after trying out the product on the gear he sells.   He suggested I try out a pair of them, saying that having two components in the audio chain using these cords produced optimum results.   When I told him I had AVA gear (T7 pre-amp and 350EX amp) and that they had fixed, two prong type cords, he expressed some disbelief that especially the amp would have been designed using a, as he put it, “cheap” cord.   He said all quality components use the 3-prong type.   He also suggested that I take both pre-amp and amp to an audio repair shop and get the 3-prong type retrofitted to the units.    I’ll admit I was surprised when I got the 350EX amp and saw the thin two-prong cord.   All my previous amps had the beefy 3-prong type cord.   After hearing the amp though, my concerns were eliminated.   Still I am curious at the design choice of the thinner cord, and its fixed nature.   I would not feel comfortable having the AVA products retro-fitted with the 3-prong type though, especially since Frank mentioned to me that the pre-amp power section/cord design is critical to the sound quality of the T7.

[Val]

According to their website they use Kimber

Imagine the sound of a T7 with a Kimber Palladian

[rosconey]

to me the only reason to get a after market power cord is if the stock one is too short,why would a company sell you a 1500$ or more kick ass amp and send a power cord that doesnt work for the unit------they dont they send a power cord that is designed for the equipment and does what its supposed too. but they might not look fancy dancy enough for some people .

[Val]

rosconey, I have been in audio long enough to have suffered my own snake-oil mistakes several times, but one thing I can say without the slightest doubt is that power cords make a big difference (not always for the better), much more than any other accessory and even than changing most components. My experience is that the correct one will:

- Lower the background noise substantially, something that is easily heard.
- Increase bass dramatically, to the extent that I have had to lower my subwoofer settings and/or change cords on other components.
- Lift the proverbial veil from music reproduction due to much lower amounts of grunge and distortion than the ones passing through the regular cords.

I have felt a Shunyata King Cobra lower a Krell KPS25sc preamp/CD player outside temperature from tube amp untouchable hot to barely warm, and heard a totally transformed sound, and that from a top class component. In fact (heresy for the unbelievers), just plugging a King Cobra on the same circuit where your system is, without connecting the cord to anything, will improve the sound in an easily noticeable way.

For the "not always for the better" above, my N804-based system sounds too vivid and bright with Ambience PowerChords on the Odyssey amps.

And I am the kind of guy who doesn't believe that tube is always better.

Val

[avahifi]

The power cord on an audio component is essentially an extension of the primary winding of the power transformer.  In addition, the primary of the power transformer is a big inductor, a great low pass filter, eliminating the high frequency hash on the power line.  It is difficult to understand how installing a "magic" power cord as the last five feet of the transformer primary (several hundred feet of plain old copper wire) can make any sonic difference at all, especially since the whole rest of the power source, from the windings in the power station generator, to all they miles of wire, transformers, relays, and so on, between the generator and your AC wall outlet are not audiophile approved sonic wonderful parts and wires.

We do know that a three wire AC cord will often cause ground loop hum problems with the system as you now have undocumented and randiom ground connections from both the interconnect cables and the power line connections (whoops!).  Not a great idea.

Does any audiophile out there actually care to do a bit of real investigation as to what hash or garbage is actually on the power line?  Like use an scope to see what is really there?  To measure what differences that "magic" power cord really made (if any)?

Nah, that's no fun.  Much better to just pay $1000 for that power cord and "believe" its really wonderful sounding.  After all, good enginering never made an audio product really better did it?

Frank Van Alstine

[JoshK]

Haha....thanks for your frank (pun intended) insight!

[Val]

It is difficult to understand how installing a "magic" power cord as the last five feet of the transformer primary (several hundred feet of plain old copper wire) can make any sonic difference at all, especially since the whole rest of the power source, from the windings in the power station generator, to all they miles of wire, transformers, relays, and so on, between the generator and your AC wall outlet are not audiophile approved sonic wonderful parts and wires.

Does any audiophile out there actually care to do a bit of real investigation as to what hash or garbage is actually on the power line?  Like use an scope to see what is really there?  To measure what differences that "magic" power cord really made (if any)?

Nah, that's no fun.  Much better to just pay $1000 for that power cord and "believe" its really wonderful sounding.  After all, good enginering never made an audio product really better did it?

I have known about you and respect you as one of the honest "movers" of this industry, but I have been listening to audio systems since the seventies and, while I enjoy checking measurements, I also trust my ears and humbly stand by what I said. The eternal subjective vs objective discussion, I guess.

Val

[audiojerry]

I have also found that different power cords can make a significant difference, but less so on some amplifiers. I have learned that a well designed amp will filter and regulate the incomimg power to a very high degree, which makes the effects of a high-end power cord superflous. Also, as Frank said, the transformer is a tremendous inductor that filters out the high frequency hash. I am sure that AVA's preamps have similar meticulous power supply regulation.

That being said, I did say the difference is "less so" with amps. With a great power cord, it's possible that the noise floor might drop a little more when used with a well designed amp.

The biggest difference with power cords for me has been with digital components, followed by preamps, with amps making little or no difference.  

Regarding transformers, is filtration one reason why solid state amps use transformers even when they aren't inherent?

[John B]

What Frank says makes very logical sense.   A power cord should not make a difference, all things considered.  However, I've had the same experience as Val has had.  I recently switched out the power cord on my B&K Ref-50 processor with a VansEvers custom pc, and noticed the same enhancement of bass, and a very noticable drop in background noise.   In switching back to the stock cord these differences were again very apparent in the increase in noise, and the bass extension drop.   Call me a foolish audiophile, but I hear what I hear, or as Popeye would say "I'am what I'am"

That said I would not consider modifing any of my AVA gear to take a custom PC.  If Frank says his gear won't benefit from it, he's the designer, and I'll trust his judgement.

[theborg]

I've locked this thread pending further guidance. Feel free to comment here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=2517

Thanks!

[ZORKEE]

NEMA specs, would say proper design ampacity and voltage ratings.  Also insulation material for the enviroment it is to be used in.   Magic of wiring is not in any building standard for wire.  Advertising is an amazing thing, and what people believe in.  Are there audiophile grade fuse holders, and maybe some rocker switches, since this is inline with the magic wires.

[Psychicanimal]

NEMA specs, would say proper design ampacity and voltage ratings.  Also insulation material for the enviroment it is to be used in.   Magic of wiring is not in any building standard for wire.  Advertising is an amazing thing, and what people believe in.  Are there audiophile grade fuse holders, and maybe some rocker switches, since this is inline with the magic wires.

Yes, there are siver plated, cryo'ed fuse holders (ACME).  My Clear Image T4 quad isolation transformer/filter array uses aircraft grade rocker switches...

[satfrat]

NEMA specs, would say proper design ampacity and voltage ratings.  Also insulation material for the enviroment it is to be used in.   Magic of wiring is not in any building standard for wire.  Advertising is an amazing thing, and what people believe in.  Are there audiophile grade fuse holders, and maybe some rocker switches, since this is inline with the magic wires.

www.dedicatedaudio.net has silver cryoed Acme fuse holders along with silver cryoed Acme outlets and IEC terminals. Advertising is advertising, but the truth is in what you hear. Everything should be tried before making statements one way or another on a subject.   IMHO Regards, Robin

[markC]

Is it possible that changing a power cord produces an improvement in sound without being able to measure it? I think so. After all, changing a transformer produced a "wow factor" without being able to measure it.