Odyssey Stratos Mono Extremes v McCormack DNA-500

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denjo

Odyssey Stratos Mono Extremes v McCormack DNA-500
« on: 22 Dec 2005, 02:50 am »
I was wondering if anoyone has done a head-to-head comparison of the Odyssey Stratos Mono Extremes and the McCormack DNA-500? Would it be a fair comparison?

pugs

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Odyssey Stratos Mono Extremes v McCormack DNA-500
« Reply #1 on: 22 Dec 2005, 04:36 am »
I would like to know also.  I had to make a similar decision and wound up choosing the Extremes.  I really wanted the McCormack, but I made the decision to have three Extremes for left, right and center channels of my 2ch/HT system instead of one 2ch amp.  The Extremes are very nice, but it would've been nice to hear the MCormack before making that decision.  If I just had a 2ch system, I would've gone for the McCormack.

Marbles

Odyssey Stratos Mono Extremes v McCormack DNA-500
« Reply #2 on: 22 Dec 2005, 01:52 pm »
It looks like at some point in the next month or two, TomS will bring his DNA-500 buy so I can listen to it.

I can compare it to my "normal" Stratos dual mono and give my impressions.

TomS

Odyssey Stratos Mono Extremes v McCormack DNA-500
« Reply #3 on: 23 Dec 2005, 02:07 am »
If anyone is interested, now that I have the Joule VZN-100's in the house, the DNA-500 is for sale on a'gon.  Tom

buckeyefanandy

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« Reply #4 on: 23 Dec 2005, 02:10 am »
if it was a DNA .05 I may be interested, but no way on the 500

zybar

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Odyssey Stratos Mono Extremes v McCormack DNA-500
« Reply #5 on: 23 Dec 2005, 02:12 am »
Quote from: TomS
If anyone is interested, now that I have the Joule VZN-100's in the house, the DNA-500 is for sale on a'gon.  Tom


Can I ask what you like about the Joule more?

I have heard great things about their amps, but have never heard them.

George

TomS

Odyssey Stratos Mono Extremes v McCormack DNA-500
« Reply #6 on: 23 Dec 2005, 11:17 am »
The DNA-500 is a VERY, VERY good solid state amp - very smooth, easy to listen to presentation, with great power if called upon.  I always thought that when you started approaching this level of performance the subsequent gains were pretty marginal (80/20 rule or worse).  Marbles heard this amp briefly on my little Merlins and  I think he'd tell you the combo was quite good, especially in the imaging.  At that point my system was not fully assembled though, in terms of cabling, setup, etc.  The Merlins are extreaordinarily revealing though amd overall things were pretty good.

What I heard when the Musicwood version Joule's came to play were several things right away -

- a dramatically improved sense of image/stage height and depth/layering
- bass definition imroved substantially, especially in the higher range of bass where most of the foundations seem to really be.  It was fast and tight too, not expected in a tube amp
- lightening fast transients from a black background that literally shock you sometimes.  Like they came out of nowhere
- the most significant change though vs. the DNA was the utter purity of the high end.  The DNA has an ever so slightly veiled upper register when compared to the best (like the Joules).  Not bad or really that noticable until you hear it in comparison to something like the Joules.
- the Joules are probably best described as tonally very rich and flushed out while not sounding at all colored or caramel coated like some tube amps (CJ for example).  Sterile they are not.  Tonality on acoustic guitar  (think Michael Hedges Aerial Boundaries) is both very detailed and properly rounded.

As I said, I thought anything past the DNA without spending stratospheric dollars, was no more than 20% better.  With the Joules, though not cheap, it was much more than 20% better imho.

Oh, also, I can't possibly explain why, but those in the know say there is a significant sonic difference from the "standard" version to the Musicwood cases.    I know several of the "standard" ones for sale on a'gon are people who have upgraded them to Musicwood.  I went with the Musicwoods right off the bat.  I also have on order 2 Critical Mass Systems isolation platforms to set them on.  Joe at CMS actually has the VZN220's with 12(!) of those huge 6C33's per channel (mine have 6 each).  Talk about space heaters.  They sounded glorious on a megabuck pair of Talons he's taking to CES next month.  Jud Barber, Dave Elrod, and Joe are showing together there.

Sorry for the long answer, but as you can tell, I like them a lot.  After years of switching and hunting the next best thing, these are keepers and   I never thought I'd be saying that.  While expensive, in the long run it may actually save me a little money, and allow me to spend more time listening, which is what it's all about anyway.

Tom

byteme

Odyssey Stratos Mono Extremes v McCormack DNA-500
« Reply #7 on: 23 Dec 2005, 06:21 pm »
Just so that I make sure I follow what we're talking here - we're looking at the Mono Extreme vs. amps that cost 3 and 6 times as much?  No bad...I'd be interested to hear how that works out too.

Marbles

Odyssey Stratos Mono Extremes v McCormack DNA-500
« Reply #8 on: 23 Dec 2005, 06:31 pm »
Quote from: Marbles
It looks like at some point in the next month or two, TomS will bring his DNA-500 buy so I can listen to it.

I can compare it to my "normal" Stratos dual mono and give my impressions.


I guess not....Best of luck with the sale Tom.

zybar

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Odyssey Stratos Mono Extremes v McCormack DNA-500
« Reply #9 on: 23 Dec 2005, 09:16 pm »
Quote from: TomS
The DNA-500 is a VERY, VERY good solid state amp - very smooth, easy to listen to presentation, with great power if called upon.  I always thought that when you started approaching this level of performance the subsequent gains were pretty marginal (80/20 rule or worse).  Marbles heard this amp briefly on my little Merlins and  I think he'd tell you the combo was quite good, especially in the imaging.  At that point my system was not fully assembled though, in terms of cabling, setup, etc.  The Merlins are  ...


Thanks Tom.

audiojerry

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Odyssey Stratos Mono Extremes v McCormack DNA-500
« Reply #10 on: 24 Dec 2005, 07:36 am »
OTL's are extremely transparent and very fast. It will sound very different from SS, and different from transformer based tube. They have a tendency to sound lean to me, and are more of a challenge to achieve system synergy. If you get it right, though, the sound can be phenomenal.

zybar

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Odyssey Stratos Mono Extremes v McCormack DNA-500
« Reply #11 on: 24 Dec 2005, 12:23 pm »
Quote from: audiojerry
OTL's are extremely transparent and very fast. It will sound very different from SS, and different from transformer based tube. They have a tendency to sound lean to me, and are more of a challenge to achieve system synergy. If you get it right, though, the sound can be phenomenal.


Agreed.

I had a pair of Atma-Sphere OTL's and with the right speakers they were stunning.

Ultimately I sold them as they had limited power and produced a tremendous amount of heat with all those tubes running in Class A.

George

TomS

Odyssey Stratos Mono Extremes v McCormack DNA-500
« Reply #12 on: 24 Dec 2005, 09:12 pm »
Toasty they are!

They definitely aren't lean on the Merlins.  

I tried the Reimer Teton GS's with them and found that to be not so sweet for whatever reason.  I don't know if it's the efficiency or what, but I also picked up some constant low level 60hz hum in the process.

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Odyssey Stratos Mono Extremes v McCormack DNA-500
« Reply #13 on: 25 Dec 2005, 01:43 am »
So the Joule VZN-100 are OTL?  MSRP?  Mono or stereo?  Is the quoted price each or pair?  Considering how much I like tubes in general, & the expense, size & heat from OTL, I probably should avoid ever hearing them.  I bet it would not take much power to drive the ribbons only on a pair of VMPS.  

I heard the CJ 140W tube monos & the 50W Bruce Moore tube monos.  Definitely the CJ tended to sound whooly, while the Moore's had no trace of this effect.  Neither did the McIntosh MC275 I just sampled.

zybar

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Odyssey Stratos Mono Extremes v McCormack DNA-500
« Reply #14 on: 25 Dec 2005, 03:17 am »
Quote from: RibbonSpeakers.net
So the Joule VZN-100 are OTL?  MSRP?  Mono or stereo?  Is the quoted price each or pair?  Considering how much I like tubes in general, & the expense, size & heat from OTL, I probably should avoid ever hearing them.  I bet it would not take much power to drive the ribbons only on a pair of VMPS.  

I heard the CJ 140W tube monos & the 50W Bruce Moore tube monos.  Definitely the CJ tended to sound whooly, while the Moore's had no trace of this effect.  Neither did the McIntosh MC275 I just sampled.


The VZN-100 are OTL amps in mono block config.

They list for $15k/pair - ouch!

Not a big fan of CJ amps, but the new MAC gear is good.

George

zybar

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Odyssey Stratos Mono Extremes v McCormack DNA-500
« Reply #15 on: 27 Dec 2005, 01:38 pm »
Quote from: TomS
The DNA-500 is a VERY, VERY good solid state amp - very smooth, easy to listen to presentation, with great power if called upon. I always thought that when you started approaching this level of performance the subsequent gains were pretty marginal (80/20 rule or worse). Marbles heard this amp briefly on my little Merlins and I think he'd tell you the combo was quite good, especially in the imaging. At that point my system was not fully assembled though, in terms of cabling, setup, etc. The Merlins are extreaordinarily revealing though amd overall things were pretty good.

What I heard when the Musicwood version Joule's came to play were several things right away -

- a dramatically improved sense of image/stage height and depth/layering
- bass definition imroved substantially, especially in the higher range of bass where most of the foundations seem to really be. It was fast and tight too, not expected in a tube amp
- lightening fast transients from a black background that literally shock you sometimes. Like they came out of nowhere
- the most significant change though vs. the DNA was the utter purity of the high end. The DNA has an ever so slightly veiled upper register when compared to the best (like the Joules). Not bad or really that noticable until you hear it in comparison to something like the Joules.
- the Joules are probably best described as tonally very rich and flushed out while not sounding at all colored or caramel coated like some tube amps (CJ for example). Sterile they are not. Tonality on acoustic guitar (think Michael Hedges Aerial Boundaries) is both very detailed and properly rounded...


Tom,

Did you know that Steve now has a mod for the DNA-500?

According to Steve here are the improvements:

Quote
This package provides a nice boost in resolution and clarity, a beautifully extended and delicate top end, and improved expression of low-level dynamics.


Probably still won't have you wanting to let go of the Joule amps, but knowing Steve, I am sure it makes things a little bit closer.

Too bad you aren't local, I would love to hear the Joule amps.

George

TomS

Odyssey Stratos Mono Extremes v McCormack DNA-500
« Reply #16 on: 27 Dec 2005, 04:56 pm »
George,

I talked to Steve Mc about the mods last month and he said he was kind of "forced" to offer it, as in taking people's money if they insist on it.  He is such a nice guy, you know, in that he was pretty clear that he considered it more psychological than actual in terms of improvements.  I decided to pass as I think the $4k mark is about high water for the value it's ever going to bring in the market.  What do you use for a 20A PC on yours?  I have the Harmonix X-DC and like it a lot on this amp, especially with the Sound Application RLS filter.

You could always make a road (plane) trip to visit Marbles and me in Ft. Wayne, but I'd seriously wait for the Sason's to arrive.  Also, my current VZN's are actually "loaners" from Jud Barber, with new ones arriving some time late January I hope.  I am also waiting for a few other things  that all seem to come together late January/early February (Wadia GNSC mods, latest Merlin VSM-MX's, CMS stands) at which point things should settle down.

Merlin Music Systems is near Buffalo (Hemlock) and, of course, Bobby has the Joule LA150P and VZN100's there as well with Audio Aero Capitole II SE CDP.  You would likely have to endure a serious sales pitch as he's very passionate about what he does (and rightfully so).

Tom

audiophile39

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Odyssey Stratos Mono Extremes v McCormack DNA-500
« Reply #17 on: 29 Dec 2005, 07:45 pm »
I'm putting together a system for myself and have Odyssey on my short list.  In doing some due diligence, I came upon reviews of both the Stratos and DNA 500 by the eminent Peter Moncrieff, in which he gives the Stratos nearly his highest ranking of "1B", just a whisker behind the "1A" ranking of the DNA 500 (Click links below).  

Given the cost differential of over $5,000 between the two units, and Moncrieff's assessment of the DNA 500 as being the finest amp in the world, his perspective on the Stratos is high praise, indeed.  The review of the Stratos is a few years old, but is impressive nonetheless...

http://www.odysseyaudiohk.com/chi/review_st-iar.htm (Click and scroll down)

http://www.iar-80.com/page5.html

rosconey

Odyssey Stratos Mono Extremes v McCormack DNA-500
« Reply #18 on: 29 Dec 2005, 08:38 pm »
if you want even more -buy the extreme edition odyssey stratos or even better the extreme mono's

siowyn

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Odyssey Stratos Mono Extremes v McCormack DNA-500
« Reply #19 on: 21 Jan 2006, 09:27 am »
So this brings us back to theoriginal question: is the mono extreme better than the M DNA-500 then? since the strato itself was already a Class 1B and I definitely think the MONO e's are a few step up from there.(Strato)