[Mad DOg]

...Hey, can I come too?...

i don't think it'll be a problem as Sotantar has graciously extended Bioforce, Sa-dono, me and my wife an invitation to audition his Zu Druids...this is going to turn out to be a nice comparison...Onix Ref 1s, VMPS 626Rs and Zu Druids...excellent!

Randy, if you attend, would you be bringing your Tyler monitors? I've always wanted to hear those...

[Sa-dono]

I think we've all decided you're going to hold the first LA AC get together Sotantar

Hey, can I come too?  Would like to hear what somebody else's system sounds like, for grins.  Of course, I called up John a few months ago, about listening to his RM40's, and still have not made it over there.  Of course, my excuse now is I want to wait for the 626's to break in  

Randy

Randy:
Another excuse is trying to convince your wife to let you get the RM40's after liking them John needs to break those 626R's in quickly.

Hey John! Why not throw the 1812 on for a quick break-in? Oh...wait a minute..we're trying for break-in...not breaking I guess one of these days I'll let you and MD live that down   I guess I better make sure I don't kill a woofer or something  

[randytsuch]

Randy, if you attend, would you be bringing your Tyler monitors? I've always wanted to hear those...

Hi Mad dog,
I'll try, depends on the circumstances, not even sure if I can make it, when and where is this going to happen?  I know for most people weekends are better, but I can have trouble getting away from family stuff of weekends.

Sotantar
There is very little change of my convincing my wife to let me buy RM40's, so I don't have to worry about that.

I also put my name in to audition the Criterions that are going around, but I think the list is pretty long.  I was also supposed to call GR with credit card info, which I have not got around to doing.

Randy

[Mad DOg]

Randy,

The date has not been determined yet...Bioforce needs to break in his 626s first...then we need to all agree on a time...

[randytsuch]

Hey guys,
If I have enough lead time, then we can work out some time to get together.  Just have to give my wife some warning, and find a day when she has no plans for me   .

I will also see when I am supposed to get the Criterions for auditioning, but that would probably be too much for one day.  I think 4 speakers is already alot for one day.

Randy

[Sa-dono]

I will also see when I am supposed to get the Criterions for auditioning, but that would probably be too much for one day.  I think 4 speakers is already alot for one day.

Randy

Oh come on Randy.....MD and I compared 6 or more sets of speakers in one day

[Ravi]

I find it hard to properly compare 2 speakers in a week, let alone 5 or 6 in a day.  I think one speaker always gets shortchanged either with placement, non-synergistic electronics/room,  or type of music used to test may not be its primary strength.

But I admits its lots of fun, have been part of such 'shootouts' a number of times.  I still think such shootout results should be taken with a large grain of salt.

BTW, I own none of the speakers that will be tested, just speaking from my experience on going to such events.

[Mad DOg]

I find it hard to properly compare 2 speakers in a week, let alone 5 or 6 in a day.  I think one speaker always gets shortchanged either with placement, non-synergistic electronics/room,  or type of music used to test may not be its primary strength.

But I admits its lots of fun, have been part of such 'shootouts' a number of times.  I still think such shootout results should be taken with a large grain of salt...

i agree on all accounts...unless i'm actually at the shootout, i take everything with lots of salt cuz nobody hears things the same way!

[Sa-dono]

I find it hard to properly compare 2 speakers in a week, let alone 5 or 6 in a day.  I think one speaker always gets shortchanged either with placement, non-synergistic electronics/room,  or type of music used to test may not be its primary strength.

But I admits its lots of fun, have been part of such 'shootouts' a number of times.  I still think such shootout results should be taken with a large grain of salt.

BTW, I own none of the speakers that will be tested, just speaking from my experience on going to such events.

I agree to some degree. I feel that all reviews, regardless of whether a year, month, week, or day was spent on the comparison...or even if done by a "professional reviewer," should still be taken with a grain of salt.

However, by taking your thoughts into consideration, if the comparisons are being done at a dealer or owner's place, then you would think that the speakers there SHOULD have the advantage because the placement, room, and equipment should all be setup to create the proper synergy for those speakers. Also, it would be near to impossible for most people to do a proper comparison if more than a week was needed. Plus, pretty much most any review we read would be invalid.

So my take on things is that you SHOULD have some constant. If you're doing a speaker comparison and bringing your speakers, you should know them intimately enough to know their characteristics, and therefore be able to get an idea of the effect that the room and gear has. Now taking this into account, you can therefore obtain some idea of the sonics and characteristics that the speakers you are comparing to have. While you may not be getting the absolute best sound out of the other speakers, you can at least get some idea of their sound, so you can decide whether you want to pursue getting them to sound better or not.

Sorry for the rambling...but you're talking about an ideal that many can not achieve due to so many constraints. And I do agree that it should be fun, as it is still a hobby. Also, as far as music is concerned, unless you only listen to a few types of music, the speaker should be able to cover any type of music you throw at it (except poor recordings ), or otherwise that speaker should be ruled out.

[John Casler]

Haven't had a chance to "crank" the 626Rs yet, but all I can say is "Holy House on Fire!!!!"    

These things are amazing.  It is hard to beleive they are in this price bracket. ($1500-$1700).

Straight out of the box without any Set up except placement, they sound as good as my 40s at moderate to loud levels.

I had to set them "in front" of the RM 40s so they are almost in the middle of the room.  Man you know what that does to "soundstage depth"  

I was worried about the BASS   Well my fears have been put to bed.  These things have almost as much (percieved not measured) bass as the RM40s.  I'm blown away.

For Speaker stands, I have them sitting on "old speakers".  This gives the "Beard" or baffle Brian talks about.  I knew those old JBLs would come in handy

But anyhow, these things could be ready "anytime".  I will be playing with them for the next couple months so I can get familiar with all the variables, but they will open a lot of ears.

[doug s.]

hi john,

so, what yure really saying is that the rm40's are a waste of money?
 

as ya know, i've been dreaming of the 40's for quite some time, but budget has been getting in the way.  yust last nite, i showed webpics of both the 40 & the 626 to the wife, trying to conwince her that, w/my pair of vmps larger subs, someting like the 626r's may be a cost-effective equivalent, but she was having none of it - "get the big ones, i want big speakers!"  she won't be happy hearing this info about the 626r's!  


regards,

doug s.

[randytsuch]

hi john,

so, what yure really saying is that the rm40's are a waste of money?
 

as ya know, i've been dreaming of the 40's for quite some time, but budget has been getting in the way.  yust last nite, i showed webpics of both the 40 & the 626 to the wife, trying to conwince her that, w/my pair of vmps larger subs, someting like the 626r's may be a cost-effective equivalent, but she was having none of it - "get the big ones, i want big speakers!"  she won't be happy hearing this info about the 626r's!  


regards,

doug s.

Where did you find a wife who wants big speakers?

Randy

[randytsuch]

hi john,

so, what yure really saying is that the rm40's are a waste of money?
 

as ya know, i've been dreaming of the 40's for quite some time, but budget has been getting in the way.  yust last nite, i showed webpics of both the 40 & the 626 to the wife, trying to conwince her that, w/my pair of vmps larger subs, someting like the 626r's may be a cost-effective equivalent, but she was having none of it - "get the big ones, i want big speakers!"  she won't be happy hearing this info about the 626r's!  


regards,

doug s.

Where did you find a wife who wants big speakers?

Randy

[Tyson]

John,
do either the 626R's or your 40's have the new tweeters?  From what I heard of the FST tweeter in the 626R vs. the stock tweeter, I think the FST tweeter makes a LARGE improvement in the sound.

I'm getting the FST for my 40's, and also, I'm going to try a pair of "jumper's" between the binding posts, but my jumper speaker wire is gonna have some bybee filters on them, it should be sweet!

[JoshK]

Tyson,

Curious as to who is going to do the FST upgrade for you?  Are you going to go TRT too?  I am thinking of doing the works when I upgrade as I am going to do it all myself and I would like to do it once and for all.

[Tyson]

I may get Wayne over to do it.  If not, I guess I'll have to do it myself - I already fixed the mid panels by myself, so changing tweeters and changing a capacitor or 2 in the crossover shouldn't be too difficult.  I'm a little nervous about cutting in to the speakers to make space for the FST tweeter, but life is risk

[John Casler]

so, what yure really saying is that the rm40's are a waste of money?
 

as ya know, i've been dreaming of the 40's for quite some time, but budget has been getting in the way. yust last nite, i showed webpics of both the 40 & the 626 to the wife, trying to conwince her that, w/my pair of vmps larger subs, someting like the 626r's may be a cost-effective equivalent, but she was having none of it - "get the big ones, i want big speakers!" she won't be happy hearing this info about the 626r's!
 

Hey Doug,

Well, I'm not quite saying that, ....but they are truly amazing.  

I think the key words are "at moderate to loud levels".  But since they share the same drivers, they share the same sound (but the 626Rs do have the new FST)

And if your wife "likes'em big", that speaks highly of her (and you I think).  She is a woman after my own heart.

These darn speakers sound so good that I ran out and bought a 50 foot CAT5 cable so I am at this moment, writing this on my laptop and listening to Stevie Ray Vaughn and trying to keep my jaw off the floor.

I am about 5-6 feet from each speaker and it is difficult for me, a sesquipedelian, to find the verbiage to describe the clairty, detail, and resolution, AND DEEP BASS!!!!    I am hearing.

If you have a small or medium sized room these speakeres will transform it into the Venue of your choice.  They are the audiophile dream.

John,
do either the 626R's or your 40's have the new tweeters? From what I heard of the FST tweeter in the 626R vs. the stock tweeter, I think the FST tweeter makes a LARGE improvement in the sound.

Hi Tyson,

Yes the 626Rs have the FST and I don't know how the Wizard does it, but this is without a doubt the the most incredible tweeter in the history of audio.

Right now I have the Jim Keltner drum solo off of the Sheffield DRIVE CD on and the delicacy of the brushes on the ridges of the Cymbals and the head of the snare is again beyond my ability to describe it.

The scary thing is, just when you have thought you have heard the best there is, Brian cames along with something else.

Oooops here comes Clapton "Unplugged".

I am assembling a CD or Two of Reference Cuts specifically for the VMPS ribbons (can be used with lesser speakers of course   ) complete with a CD of some specific test tones to help balance the treble/mids/bass.

It will also have details of what to listen for in the soundstage and presentation of each cut and why it is selected, and what it will demonstrate.

If I get real ambitious, I will also include several diagrams for listening and set up procedures.

Due to all the time it is taking and the materials involved, I will probably have to charge a nominal amount, for it, but it will have a lot of stuff that VMPS owners will certainly enjoy.

I think it will also help them get the most out of their systems.

And they will be on BLACK CDs of course.

Also for a little bit more, I will include a "secret" set up device that I designed and developed years ago that provides "laser" perfect speaker convergence in seconds and for pennies.

You will have to promise not to "disclose" what this device is and how to make and use it.

I just used the device on these 626s a few minutes ago and BadaBing
Perfect balance, soundstage and the tightest, detailed center fill you can imagine.

I'll even provide information on how for $30 at Radio Shack you can make a simple device to allow you to listen to your system at any volume level you want (assuming you live in a multi-family dwelling) and never have a PO'd neighbor.  

But anyhow....

Doug, tell your wife not to worry.  The big ones are still the best, but if you don't have the room or the $$change$$, the 626R FST will completely satisfy you ( and her) until the ship comes in.

And I don't even have my woofer turned on!!!!

Madonna just ask me "what I was looking at" so I better go,  WHOA when that bass guitar comes in on Vogue, it is clear, dry, meaty and fat.

I wish you guys were sitting in my sweet seat right now.... These things are incredible.

The Bass test tones just came on, and I cannot believe I had response down to 31.5Hz.!!!!!!!!    

Hello... These are only supposed to go down to 42Hz.  Can I put enough exclamation points after this??

Now the response was not big, mind you, but on a baffled stand it was solid and dry.  No wonder they sound like mini-RM40s to me (well they are)

Tell that to the $5000 monitors that only hit 80Hz if they're lucky.

Big B didn't tell us about this.

My compliments to the Maestro.

[Sa-dono]

Well now I'm just going to expect the world from these speakers John Okay..not really...I am highly interested in hearing the 626R's..but mainly hearing the new tweeter. Oh..and what do you think of the finish? Supposedly Brian started using a new cabinet builder..

[Brian Cheney]

The RM 40 with the FST in my room (14x31, 9ft sloping ceiling, full LEDE) takes the 626R FST by the scruff of the neck, lifts em straight up, shakes em and drops them in a heap on the floor.  And that's with Norah Jones!

Someone once asked me why I thought a tweeter would influence bass response.  Part of the roadshow demo I used to do included a 1% change in the treble crossover (5kHz and above).  The bass response dried up almost completely with the incorrect value.

A nearly ideal tweeter like the FST (13 mg moving mass) makes a huge difference in bass and midrange clarity.  The 7 kHz crossover makes for more constant directivity with rising frequency.

Too bad the FST is an exclusive, one-of-a-kind, ours-alone construct.  Cone and dome advocates should hear it, just before taking a permanent vow of silence about the virtues of dynamic tweeters.

[Sotantar]

Hello all.  Ok, we can have a get together here at my place in L.A.  Lets make it for a Saturday or Sunday, whichever works out better for all.  I will ask Zu to attend as to make sure their speakers are well represented and maybe they will even bring a sub or two and processor along.  

I guess the first issue is to figure out when everyone would be available to attend.

Peace, and have a great weekend.