DAC suggestions sought

lcrim · « **on:** 20 Dec 2005, 04:27 pm »

It is time to upgrade the DACs in my systems. I was hoping for some experienced help with this choice. In one system, I need to be able to switch inputs as I will use it w/ both a directv receiver for watching TV and also PC audio. The other system is PC audio only. I can use the fairly decent DVD players in both locations for their sound and video. I will have Squeeze Boxes in both locations but would prefer outboard DACs to modding the SB DAC. I am pretentious enough to prefer the sound quality of analog but the SB has usability options which make it terribly attractive.
I have read a lot of stuff about the NOS Lite Ah DAC, the Ack Dack, and the Sott Nixon Tube DAC. Of the three I think the Lite AH DAC either from Poth or GR Research holds the most interest for me as Scott Nixon doesn't return emails and I am just not interested in battery powered equipment. The higher end units w/ tubed outputs from GR Research also seem very interesting to me.
The Benchmark DAC-1, while not presently available new, is a known quantity and probably is the upper limit of what I can spend ($975.) I have read glowing reviews of the Audio Note 1.1 DAC but it is never available used. I'm not sure how to proceed.

miklorsmith · « **Reply #1 on:** 20 Dec 2005, 04:49 pm »

I had occasion to compare the Monica-2 from Red Wine Audio to the TubeDAC. I preferred the Monica, though I owned that unit. Then, I demo'd the dAck and ended up buying that unit, as I prefer it to the Monica. Interestingly, I like the Monica better on my second system, as that rig can tend a bit toward brightness.

The Monica is exceptionally analog, but is rolled a bit at the top and maybe a tad soft in the bass. It does provide a smoother top-end then the TubeDAC, which I thought had an odd mid-treble spike. I've been told this is an intentional design choice to ameliorate the non-OS side-effect of softened treble. In my system, it seemed unnatural.

The Ack! has a more extended top and bottom end and might be a tad more dynamic than the other two. It's my favorite of the three right now, though my neighbor is loaning me his Krell (30c I think) standalone player that seems more developed at both ends and more tonally saturated as well. But, this is a $7k CDP. Dammit.

muralman1 · « **Reply #2 on:** 20 Dec 2005, 04:51 pm »

I have the AN 1.1. Stock, it is very fine, airy, musical, and three dimensional. On the negative side, it is rolled off. You can fix this by replacing the cheap diode with Shottke.

Considering availability problems for used An DACs, I would try the Scott Nixon Tube DAC, and get the same magic.

scottnixon · « **Reply #3 on:** 20 Dec 2005, 05:04 pm »

Larry I got an email from you on 12/15 and responded the same day.

GHM · « **Reply #4 on:** 20 Dec 2005, 05:44 pm »

Not soap boxing for the company but the Audio Sector NON OS DAC should be added to the list. No rolled off highs here and the separation of the voices and instruments is terrific. There's a delineation of the soundstage which allows the individual layers to be heard..no 2D imagery.Unless the recording is 2D to begin with.

Also this one plugs in a wall. I use a big Belden 14 gauge power cord on mine. It's sounds better when plugged directly into the wall. With a true 2 volt output this Dac can really swing the dynamic passages with ease.

samplesj · « **Reply #5 on:** 20 Dec 2005, 05:54 pm »

Quote from: lcrim

The Benchmark DAC-1, while not presently available new, is a known quantity and probably is the upper limit of what I can spend ($975.) I have read glowing reviews of the Audio Note 1.1 DAC but it is never available used. I'm not sure how to proceed.

Benchmark's aren't available directly or from a couple of the big places, but I was able to find one from a dealer in NY (http://www.daleproaudioshop.com/'>Dale Pro Audio). They may not have any now, but it can't hurt to check.

The Benchmark is REALLY REALLY good. However keep in mind that if you like the NOS sound it may not be a good fit.

Jeremy

lcrim · « **Reply #6 on:** 20 Dec 2005, 09:56 pm »

GHM:
Do you have a URL for the Audio Sector nos DAC? I found the site that sells the gainclone amps, very chic looking and reportedly great sounding but nothing there about a DAC or I missed it. Also that site is Audiosector, one word.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #7 on:** 20 Dec 2005, 10:36 pm »

Larry, here is a guy in Western Canada, selling his Benchmark.

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/20984-benchmark_dac1

That works to about USD$770...

GHM · « **Reply #8 on:** 20 Dec 2005, 10:39 pm »

Hi Larry ..you had the correct site. AudioSector. Just scroll down the page.You should see a sentence with a link to a discussion of the Dac. Peter is on vacation this week.So you probably wouldn't get a reply till next week if you emailed him. His unit in the classic chassis sales for $700 and the one in the non conventional chassis is $350.

lcrim · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 Dec 2005, 02:05 am »

I am curretly using Foobar to play music through a USB device and have been using "resampling" to 88,200 . It definitely has an effect on the "character" of the music. When I first tried it this I felt that the sound quality was richer than with a Squeeze Box using the same DAC. With more time , I am experiencing more listening fatigue and a feeling of edginess. I graduated to a Creative Audigy 2 NX from an M-Audio Transit as the USB device. The Creative has its own power supply and uses USB 2.0 instead of 1.1 but while I have reduced but not eliminated pops, I can hear the harshness better. While I don't hear distinct ringing or other digital artifacts, the edginess bothers me. I guess I am in the NOS camp.
I am hoping that one of the NOS DACs will help to extend the time I feel comfortable listening. I have also decided to return to a Squeeze Box which is limited to 16/44.1K

audioengr · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 Dec 2005, 05:58 am »

Quote from: lcrim

I am curretly using Foobar to play music through a USB device and have been using "resampling" to 88,200 . It definitely has an effect on the "character" of the music. When I first tried it this I felt that the sound quality was richer than with a Squeeze Box using the same DAC. With more time , I am experiencing more listening fatigue and a feeling of edginess. I graduated to a Creative Audigy 2 NX from an M-Audio Transit as the USB device. The Creative has its own power supply and uses USB 2.0 instea ...

I also had someone on the web claim that 88.2kHz would sound better than 96 with the Foobar resamplers. It doesn't. I went back to 24/96 using SRC.

BTW - If you are using the 2 NX, you need to read this advice:
http://www.odysseyaudiohk.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=digital_gen;action=display;num=1118506128

You should also try battery supply with the 2 NX.

Steve N.

lcrim · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 Dec 2005, 11:45 am »

Steve:
You know I respect your opinion but in my system, w/ my ears, 88.2 sounds better than 96. I had been using 96 but tried 88.2 at the suggestion of another audio professional and it reduced the edginess w/o any loss of detail or dynamics. Not enough but it was better.
The link you posted was in a thread I started over on the Asylum re: the Creative card.. But thanks again. You have been very helpful and your site has lots of good advice on PC audio.
My point was that, I am going to move to non oversampling in an attempt to solve listening fatigue.

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #12 on:** 21 Dec 2005, 06:51 pm »

I see the Lavry DA 10 hasn't been mentioned. Lavry's previous models are considered to be in the Benchmark league or better, according to some. I believe this is just shipping about now. Advantages are polarity reversal switch and stereo/mono switch (about $1000)
http://www.lavryengineering.com/index_html.html

miklorsmith · « **Reply #13 on:** 21 Dec 2005, 07:07 pm »

FWIW - my systems with the Monica or dAck are utterly devoid of any fatigue, even in 3-4 hour active-listening sessions. In fact, I haven't even thought of the phenomenon for some time. Both units are eminently musical and listenable.

BobM · « **Reply #14 on:** 21 Dec 2005, 08:52 pm »

The Monica II is a very nice sounding preamp. Very musical, but lacking in dynamics and detail.

I did improve the dynamics of mine a bit by putting a cap (6800uF) on the board where the battery connects. This helped a bit for both macro and micro dynamics.

The missing detail is primarily due to its capacitor coupling. That makes it somewhat softer overall, compared to an op-amp based output. Yes it uses Black Gates for coupling, and they take a devilishly long time to break in.

But if you have a soft sounding system in general I would look elsewhere. If you are using metal domed tweeters, or ribbons, or if your system tends more toward a hi-fi souond, then this might be a perfect match.

Alternately, there are used Mensa DI/O's on sale fairly regularly for about the same price. I think that's a better buy overall.

Enjoy,
Bob

lcrim · « **Reply #15 on:** 21 Dec 2005, 09:26 pm »

Thanks for all the suggestions.
I spoke w/ Scott Nixon and I am getting a TubeDac+ w/ a switch between coax and fiber inputs for the system that requires both inputs. This system has an Eastern Electric Minimax power amp and while it is a tube amp, there is nothing soft or colored about its character. The Tube Dac should be a good fit.
The other system has a phono/pre that inverts phase, so Scott is putting a switch on a Chibi Dac to allow for that. I won't have to constantly replug a digital cable or swap speaker leads.
I am really looking forward to hearing them.

Rocket · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 Dec 2005, 12:08 am »

Hi Icrim,

I read this a lot about oversampling dacs:

Quote

I had been using 96 but tried 88.2 at the suggestion of another audio professional and it reduced the edginess w/o any loss of detail or dynamics. Not enough but it was better.

I have a modwright perpetual technologies p3a and i don't hear any edginess from my dac. There can be lots of reasons a system may sound edgy. Just my thoughts and good luck with the sn dac.

Regards

Rod