Black bars question on widescreen

Tweaker · « **on:** 20 Dec 2005, 04:26 am »

I am very much a newbie to widescreen tv viewing so forgive my ignorance but we just purchased a Panasonic 42" plasma and when we play a movie like the LOTR there is a narrow black bar on the top and bottom of the screen. Do I have a setting wrong or is this normal?
Thanks!

bubba966 · « **Reply #1 on:** 20 Dec 2005, 05:00 am »

For LOTR it's normal.

Your plasma has an aspect ratio of 1.77:1. Meaning that for every inch of height it's 1.77 inches wide.

LOTR was filmed to display as a 2.35:1 (scope) image. Meaning that it's a good bit wider apsect ratio than your display. So to display the whole image w/out loosing anything you have small black bars at the top & bottom of the display.

Now if you want to see something that fills the entire screen, watch something that was done in either 1.77/1.78:1 (aka 16:9) or 1.85:1 (flat).

Comedies & dramas are frequently shot flat. Action, adventure, type movies are usually shot in scope.

Watch a Pixar movie (any except the Incredibles) on it as they're done in 16:9.

Basically if the back of the DVD says it's a 16:9/1.77:1/1.78:1/1.85:1 film it'll fill the whole screen.

If it says 2.0:1/2.20:1/2.35:1/2.40:1 etc. then you'll have black bars on the top & bottom of the screen.

If it says 4:3/1.33:1/1.66:1 then you'll have black bars on the sides of the screen.

Tweaker · « **Reply #2 on:** 20 Dec 2005, 06:15 pm »

Thanks,
I can see I've a lot to learn. Reminds me of when I first got interested in audio, a very long time ago, except video seems far more complex by comparison.

jeffreybehr · « **Reply #3 on:** 20 Dec 2005, 06:34 pm »

Bubba has posted a fine summary. I'll add a little detail that MAY be interesting.

'Scope' is short for Cinemascope, the (I believe) first wide-screen movie format. Previously, 'all' (sound) movies had an aspect ratio of 1.33, and probably that's why that ratio was picked for TV. 'Scope' is now called Panavision, but its aspect ratio of 2.35 (or, most recently, 2.39) to 1 is the same. 'Filmed in Panavision' in the credits at the ends of movies means widescreen, 'Filmed with Panavision Lenses' does not.

Panavision is an anamorphic process. An anamorphic lens has different magnification ratios vertically and horizontally. That very wide image is optically squeezed by the lens onto the same (narrow) negative that 1.33 movies use. The image is then expanded to almost-double width upon projection.

'1.85' was created to get some of the feeling of width of Panavision movies but without the costs and inconvenience of filming in Panavision. In this case, some of the top and bottom of the images is simply cropped when the projection prints are made. The same is true for the 1.66 ratio that at least was fairly popular in Europe for a while.

But none of these is the same aspect ratio as a TV screen, whether it's the standard, almost-square 1.33 or the newer 'widescreen' 16:9s (= 1.78:1) that you have. Why the TV industry picked YET ANOTHER aspect ratio that isn't the same shape as any movie is a question lots of us ask but that never gets answered satisfactorily.

Apparently some movies are now being filmed (and cropped) for 1.78, and it's only with those few that you won't have any black bands on your 1.78-ratio screen.

Tweaker · « **Reply #4 on:** 20 Dec 2005, 06:51 pm »

jeffreybehrall, that's all good info. Thanks.
Since most HDTV's have burn in potential do I need to be concerned about the black bars being on the screen for a long time? For example, my wife wants to do a LOTR marathon

. That would be exposing the screen to a static image (the bars) for quite a long time if I play them one after the other.

Tweaker · « **Reply #5 on:** 20 Dec 2005, 07:03 pm »

Quote

LCD's have no burn-in issues

I know, that's why I said "since most HDTV's"... I almost purchased a JVC Lcos primarily for that very reason. Ended up with the plasma instead which have improved a lot in that regard but is still something to be careful about, which is why I would like to know if the black bars could be a problem for extended viewing periods.

PhilNYC · « **Reply #6 on:** 20 Dec 2005, 07:04 pm »

Regarding burn-in...fwiw, I have had a 42" plasma widescreen since 2001, and it is on a LOT, with much of it being stuff like CNBC (w/logos in the corner, grey bars on the side). Easily 4-5 hours per day. And I have had no burn-in issues...picture quality looks as good as they day I bought it.

Tweaker · « **Reply #7 on:** 20 Dec 2005, 07:08 pm »

Thanks, Phil,
That was what I was hoping to hear!

Tweaker · « **Reply #8 on:** 20 Dec 2005, 08:09 pm »

Fabaudio,
You're correct. Now that I think about it there are a heck of a lot of LCD based tv's on the market now. I should have said "since many HDTV's have burn in issues..."
Peace.

fabaudio · « **Reply #9 on:** 20 Dec 2005, 08:43 pm »

DLP's have no burn-in issues either. Anyway FWIW anyone wanting to purchase an HDTV I say forget plasma- look into the new crop of 3000:1 contrast and up LCD's and 10000:1 and up DLP's provided they don't present " rainbow issues " and 1080p resolution. Otherwise hold your breath 'cause there's new technology out " in the field "now and more to be introduced in '06.

bubba966 · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 Dec 2005, 01:19 am »

As has been mentioned you needn't worry much about burn-in with your plasma.

Yes, very early plasmas did have some burn-in issues. But that's not been an issue for years (as Phil has proved).

Do your LOTR Extended Cut marathon and enjoy!

Mathew_M · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 Dec 2005, 05:31 am »

Quote from: fabaudio

DLP's have no burn-in issues either. Anyway FWIW anyone wanting to purchase an HDTV I say forget plasma- look into the new crop of 3000:1 contrast and up LCD's and 10000:1 and up DLP's provided they don't present " rainbow issues " and 1080p resolution. Otherwise hold your breath 'cause there's new technology out " in the field "now and more to be introduced in '06.

I used to be in the anti-plasma camp but now own a Panasonic 42" EDTV model and find it excellent. I see rainbows with DLP and they have lousy off center viewing. LCD is nice all around and would be my 2nd choice. Plasma to me offers an image very close to that of a tube set but without the geomitry issues. They look awesome off axis and the EDTV models perform well with both HD and SD material. I think a properly calibrated CRT set rivals plasma in image depth (contrast) but nothing else. Plasma by far has the best colors and sharpness. I recommend Panasonic plasmas completely.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #12 on:** 21 Dec 2005, 05:41 am »

My experience definately runs counter to yours, I guess. No plasma I've ever seen, including the Pioneer Elites, is even in the same galaxy as the best CRTs. Those EDTV plasmas look dreadful, IMO. Perhaps I just haven't seen them with a good enough source, I guess.

For my money, if I was buying a new set soon plasma would be fourth on my list, after DLP, CRT and LED. But then I admittedly don't have a lot of use for direct view sets- 42" is just so tiny!

bubba966 · « **Reply #13 on:** 21 Dec 2005, 06:06 am »

Quote from: Mathew_M

I used to be in the anti-plasma camp but now own a Panasonic 42" EDTV model and find it excellent. I see rainbows with DLP and they have lousy off center viewing. LCD is nice all around and would be my 2nd choice. Plasma to me offers an image very close to that of a tube set but without the geomitry issues. They look awesome off axis and the EDTV models perform well with both HD and SD material. I think a properly calibrated CRT set rivals plasma in image depth (contrast) but nothing else. Plasma by far has the best colors and sharpness. I recommend Panasonic plasmas completely.

You obviously haven't seen any good CRT's.

One look at a Loewe or Sony XBR 16:9 set and you wouldn't be saying what you're saying.

The one thing a plasma has over a direct view set is image size, nothing else. The Sony's only go up to 34", and the Loewe's only went up to 30" (yes, there was a 38" Loewe, but it was terrible and should've never been made IMO).

Otherwise a even good quality CRT that's been so-so calibrated kills an ISF'd Pioneer Elite plasma in the land of picture quality.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #14 on:** 21 Dec 2005, 06:21 am »

Ooops...I meant "LCD", not "LED"!

bubba966 · « **Reply #15 on:** 21 Dec 2005, 06:22 am »

Quote from: Rob Babcock

Ooops...I meant "LCD", not "LED"!

That's what that little button maked "edit" is for...