Movistor in Monster HTS

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YoungDave

Movistor in Monster HTS
« on: 18 Dec 2005, 03:19 am »
All,

A little info if you have it, please.

One of the metal oxide varistors in my old Monster HTS-3500 conditioner  blew up during a recent power event.  Since Monster will probably not let me have part specs or schematics, and since I certainly do not want to send the thing all the way back to them, can any of you help me with part id's or schematics?

Thanks

JoshK

Movistor in Monster HTS
« Reply #1 on: 18 Dec 2005, 06:26 am »
Take a picture and describe any of the writing on the mov or on a similar looking one if there is another.

bubba966

Movistor in Monster HTS
« Reply #2 on: 18 Dec 2005, 06:51 am »
I've got a pair of 3500's here. If you need a part # off of something that's fried I could pull the top off of one of 'em and try to get the # for 'ya.

YoungDave

MOV identification
« Reply #3 on: 19 Dec 2005, 05:30 am »
Thanks for your help, JoshK and Bubba966

The board that suffered the casualty is called a "Dual Plus" board.   It is a small board, about 2"x4", located immediately forward of the power cord inlet.  It has a 15A fuse on it, and is marked, "Dual Plus V1.1 25.06.01 572-DUAL-110."  Among other components, this board has 14 MOV's and 3 unknown devices marked "TF" on the board - possibly avalanche diodes.

MOV's 3-10 are on the other edge of the board away from the quite localized damage, so we may ignore them.  

MOV's 1-2 and 11-14 are marked "DNR  200241K".  Each pair of MOV's tightly sandwiches a "TF" device, held together with tape.  MOV's 13 & 14 sandwich TF3.  MOV13 has blown up, possibly damaging MOV14 and TF3.  Lots of soot, etc.

The "TF's" are marked, "TF 103 (degree sign) C    15A 250V    FUJI    13Y1.

I sure would like to know a description or cross referenceable part ID so that I can replace these things.  Maybe these pictures will help show what I am talking about - I hope so.

I can't ID these parts with a google, and I do not expect a positive response from Monster.  I do not intend to go thru all the business of back & forth shipping, etc, to replace a couple cheap parts.  I sure would like a schematic, but, again, Monster probably won't support its products in that way.  Remember when everything came with schematics, and often also with circuit descriptions?  Ah, those were the days...  Nowadays, manufacturers seem to think we are all dolts and that their products are all top secret.    :roll:

Thanks again



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YoungDave

Movistor in Monster HTS
« Reply #4 on: 22 Dec 2005, 03:34 am »
Well, folks, I've looked into this Monster business and the story is not  pleasant.

First, after discussing the issue at some length with the Monster tech support staff,  I must report the folowing:

1.  The "tech staff" is actually just a bunch of shipping clerks - they do not know what is inside their equipment.  You send a broken piece, they throw it away and send you a new one.  Doesn't speak well of Monster's own opinion of their products - they consider them "throwaway."

This was never an option for me - I long ago swapped out the aluminum wire and cheap outlets for 12 gauge copper and hospital-grade outlets.  (Monster did not know what "hospital grade" means)

2.  Monster's official position, quoted to me by 4 levels of staff, is that they don't repair, don't sell parts, will not provide schematics, will not identify parts.  In other words, they prevent you or anyone else from repairing their products, to the best of their ability.

3.  The general topology of this device is 2 sections, as follows:
    a.  A surge suppressor consisting of metal oxide varistors (MOV's 1-14) and series fuses to prevent fire when the MOV's blow up (TF's 1-3).  
    b.  Another, larger circuit board with a number of RFI filters, some of which are controlled by relays and time delays.

I found http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1155230,00.asp to be a useful guide to suppressor design and construction.  The Monster suppressor section, 14 MOV's on a 2"x4" circuit board, is entirely consistent with the cheapest circuit examined on the web page, except that it has 3 of these cheap circuits - that is, dirt-cheap but will protect downstream equipment (until the MOV's blow up, as they do when subjected to really  bad surges).

It turns out that parts selection is pretty easy - MOV's and 15A fuses.  I am still researching the value of MOV that I will put in, but that is not a critical choice.  One must decide if one wants the MOV to conduct, shorting the surge to ground, at 300, 600 or higher, or some in-between number.  Obviously, we want higher than 120, but a low enough value to activate at a reasonable surge - maybe 300V.

In summation,
1. You can expect these sacrificial MOV's to be destroyed during a nasty electrical event.  My event was bad enough to trip the power company's lightning devices at the street, and it sure blew up the MOV's in this box.
2.  Monster will not help you in any way except to give you a new box - provided your is under warranty.  The warranty is no good, of course, if you open the box, say, to replace the obvious junk outlets with good ones.
3.  Their is no magic in the box (just in Monster's advertising) and a little research and thought can help you reverse-engineer past the more obvious malfunctions.

In view of the company's attitude towards customer service, their recent history of suing anyone who uses the name "Monster" in any capacity, and in light of the really cheap construction of this product, I really must vigorously recommend that you stay away - far away - from any Monster products.

Cheers,

YoungDave

Movistor in Monster HTS
« Reply #5 on: 22 Dec 2005, 05:26 pm »
Well, here is the final word, for those who, like me, lose a sacrificial varistor.

TF3 - 15A axial-lead fuse.  Littelfuse 0324015.HXP  Mouser # 576-0324015.HXP   $0.88

MOV13 - "New Volt Sensitive Electronics Co., LTD Guangzhou, type 20D241K http://www.gzvolt.cn/nvolt/index.php/cPath/75/language/en
23mm dia, 10mm radial lead spacing, 241 volts.

suitable sub Littelfuse 20T175E   Mouser # 576-TMOV20R175E  $1.13

Looks like Monster will discard this box rather than buy $2.00 worth of parts.

Hope this helps someone futurely.