[bubba966]

Ok, so I could probably just ask Wayne this question and he'd most likely have the answer. But I thought I'd bring this up publicly in case anyone else found this info useful.

So I'm amassing beer that I'm cellaring ('04 & '05 Alaskan Smoked Porter) and am wondering should I lie it down, or store it vertically?

Or does it not even matter?

I'll probably only cellar it for 3-4 years if that matters in the answer.

[djbnh]

Are you homebrewing and keeping it in a carboy? Or is it some commercial product that you're keeping? I've had homebrew laying in a carboy for secondary fermentation for a while before bottling, and have aged Imperial stout for 4 months before drinking, but I can't say that I wanted to resist drinking the beer once it was ready to go. 3-4 years?

Also, there are some different type of caps out there that might help/hinder storing the brew for a few years - interaction with metal/plastic/some caps have oxygen inhibitor. I don't see any problem with the bottles being stored up; it might even be a plus if it's an unfiltered homebrew - the cast will settle out (of course, it'll change the beer's flavor, probably for the worse, if you're going to keep the beer 3-4 years.)

[bubba966]

This is what I'm cellaring

http://www.alaskanbeer.com/porter.html

[mca]

Is this stuff still available in stores? It sounds very interesting  

[bubba966]

Is this stuff still available in stores?

Yup. Saw some today at Ballard Market as well as Central Market (Shoreline store). Some of the QFC's have had it. Whole Foods (Roosevelt store) has had it as well. Not sure if the Larry's Markets have had it this year.

If you don't want to come over to Ballard (as the Ballard Market had a bigger stock than Central Market did) you might want to try the Central Market in Mill Creek.

Surprisingly Whole Foods had it cheaper than the Town & Country Markets have had it.

It sounds very interesting  

It is most interesting. Wayne told me about it last year. And I'd have to say that I think the 2005 vintage is better than I recall the 2004 vintage being. In a couple of years I'll give the 2004 a try. Just wished that I'd gotten more of the 2004 as I only have 4 bottles of it. Luckily I don't have the same problem with the 2005 vintage.

Go try to find yourself a bottle or two. Sure, it's between $5-$6 a bottle. But it's damn good stuff...

[Folsom]

The Winter Ale is the same price or about of every other six pack of beer. I guess the Porter is different, or do you go to a specialty store for them? Specialty stores will do stupid stuff like charge $10 for a six pack that only costs $4.68 at Albertsons. I know because that situation happened to me once. The difference in taste between the two is nothing, there is no difference.

However I want to find some Mississippi Mud - Black and Tar, which is usually at specialty shops for $3-4 per 32 oz bottle. The price is really not much considering the cool container, yet I have not been able to locate the brew.

Onto the Winter Ale, I like it. The beer is dark yet not much thicker then an amber ale, just smoother and slightly dryer. There really IS a pine taste to it, pretty cool, just a hint. The difference between the top and the bottom of the bottle was not very much, but the pine was slightly stronger toward the bottom. The bottom just had a bit more flavor despite no real change in thickness.

I read the description on the smoked porter; I would like to try the aging of beer. Even if they are real spendy I would go for some just to try the difference in aging.

[bubba966]

The smoked porter is in a 22oz bottle. The Town & Country Markets (Ballard/Greenwood/Central markets) do give you 15% off on 12+ bottles that are sold singlely. Found that out today when I bought a case of the smoked porter at Central Market.

You don't have to go to a specialty store for the smoked porter (I've yet to stop by one). But it's not at all of the grocery stores around here. And it's starting to disappear as it was released close to 2 months ago.

I do like their winter ale. I haven't had this years yet, but I'd guess it's a lot like last years. But I'd have to say that the '05 smoked porter is a lot better. And this is coming from someone who usually doesn't much care ofr porters...

Oh, and I'm not recalling it from today. But I've seen the Mississippi Mud at the Central Market in Shoreline before. 'course I wasn't looking for it today.

[pugs]

Ok, so I could probably just ask Wayne this question and he'd most likely have the answer. But I thought I'd bring this up publicly in case anyone else found this info useful.

So I'm amassing beer that I'm cellaring ('04 & '05 Alaskan Smoked Porter) and am wondering should I lie it down, or store it vertically?

Or does it not even matter?

I'll probably only cellar it for 3-4 years if that matters in the answer.

Definately vertically.  You want any sediment present to settle at the bottom.

[Folsom]

Ok, so I could probably just ask Wayne this question and he'd most likely have the answer. But I thought I'd bring this up publicly in case anyone else found this info useful.

So I'm amassing beer that I'm cellaring ('04 & '05 Alaskan Smoked Porter) and am wondering should I lie it down, or store it vertically?

Or does it not even matter?

I'll probably only cellar it for 3-4 years if that matters in the answer.

Definately vertically.  You want any sediment present to settle at the bottom.

What about taping around the top of the bottle or putting some shrink wrap or some thing on it? I know beer that is left in the cold for two weeks can loose half the bottle..... I know a cellar is different but I would still wonder, guess it depends on how well it is sealed.

[mca]

Why don't you go straight to the source?

info@alaskanbeer.com

phone (907) 780.5866

[sts9fan]

I could be wrong but I don't think porters get better with age. I know Barley wines do as well as some high alcohol ales but the sweet dark beers I am not so sure. Aging usually mellows out the alcohol taste. Also you talk about vintage as if they only brew one batch a season which i doubt is the case.

Anyway if you like porters (my favorite) I would recommend Otter Creek Stovepipe Porter, Rouge Mocha Porter, Stone Smoked Porter and my favorite Anchor Porter.

[bubba966]

I could be wrong but I don't think porters get better with age. I know Barley wines do as well as some high alcohol ales but the sweet dark beers I am not so sure. Aging usually mellows out the alcohol taste. Also you talk about vintage as if they only brew one batch a season which i doubt is the case.

Nice of you to not read the info on the Alaskan Smoked Porter at all. Yes, it does get better with age.

Yes, it is a vintaged beer. Yes, they do only make one batch a season. The stores get a shipment of it when it's released and that's all.

If you're not going to have anything positive to say why say anything at all?

This thread was not about if a porter would get better with age. Nor is it a thread on what porters are any good.  This was a thread asking about how the bottles should be stored when a beer is cellared.

[Rivendell61]

I glanced at the page and did not see how the bottles are sealed but for a capped bottle, standing or lying down does not matter.  If you really don't want the sediment in your glass (nothing wrong with drinking it) you could keep them standing--and that might also be convenient since they may be sold/cased that way.  But think wine cellaring and you can see there is no problem with horizontal--if you want to pour without sediment just (gently) stand the bottles up a while before you plan to pour/drink.

If, on the other hand, the bottles are corked--you need to store them horizontal to keep the corks from drying out.

The guy above does have a point about that porter and aging (too low in alcohol for real long cellaring).  But if you are only going 3-4 years just test a bottle occasionally to see if it is holding up.  It can vary depending on your storage temps, etc.  I've seen reports of good and less good results.

Good luck!

Mark

[sts9fan]

My bad for not reading the link I was just going off my (limited) knowlege of storing beers. I have a collection of about ten cases of different barley wines from various places as well as a bunch of Belgians. I keep all mine in the case to prevent cap interaction or faliure. I still do not think a porter will get better with age regardless of the website.

[tex-amp]

"As it ages, the smoke becomes more of a subtle background note. Around the third and fourth years the beer's other flavors such as sherry, currant, raisin, and toffee-like nuances come forward. The fifth year sees the reemergence of the smoky character to the forefront."

Having homebrewed for over 15 years and talking to master brewers I think this is a load of crap advertising. I'd read that as it loses the smoke flavor first then everything else fades away to the point you can again taste what little smoke flavor is left.  
 
Go into a local brew pub/micro brewer and talk to the brew master about this.

But I am thristy for a smoked porter now. If I brew one today I'll be drinking it within a month.

[pugs]

I could be wrong but I don't think porters get better with age. I know Barley wines do as well as some high alcohol ales but the sweet dark beers I am not so sure. Aging usually mellows out the alcohol taste. Also you talk about vintage as if they only brew one batch a season which i doubt is the case.

Anyway if you like porters (my favorite) I would recommend Otter Creek Stovepipe Porter, Rouge Mocha Porter, Stone Smoked Porter and my favorite Anchor Porter.

Fuller's London Porter is one of the best out there too.

[pugs]

I glanced at the page and did not see how the bottles are sealed but for a capped bottle, standing or lying down does not matter.  If you really don't want the sediment in your glass (nothing wrong with drinking it) you could keep them standing--and that might also be convenient since they may be sold/cased that way.  But think wine cellaring and you can see there is no problem with horizontal--if you want to pour without sediment just (gently) stand the bottles up a while before you plan to pour/drink.

 ...

Beer is not wine.  There are lots of reasons you shouldn't store beer on its side.  Here's a link and other exerpts that explain why:

http://216.109.125.130/search/cache?p=storing+beer+on+its+side&toggle=1&ei=UTF-8&u=beeradvocate.com/beer/101/store.php&w=storing+beer+side&d=Sownww0DL_C7&icp=1&.intl=us

More taken from Beeradvocate:

There are a few reasons why beer storage on the side is a bad idea:

1. For capped beers, storage on the side will cause liquid to be in cotact with the cap. This can cause caps to rust and can also impart metallic flavors to the beer. Both are obvously bad things.

2. If a beer is corked, letting the beer toch the cork may cause the beer to taste like the cork. Not a good thing.

3. A beer stored on its side hasa lot more surface area in contact with the headspace. This will cause more oxydation and development of off flavors like cardboard, and leather. Bad again.

4. Most wine fridges have a glass front door which does nothing to protect beer from harmful light.

5. When was the last time you walked into a store and saw them laying beers on their sides for sale. If the stores don't think it's good enough to keep them that way before selling, my money is on upright storage too.

You don't want a yeast ring on the side of your bottle, you don't want your beer to taste like cork, and you don't want your beer to be exposed to more oxygen.  I've had all three happen, and all three are not good.

[sts9fan]

Having homebrewed for over 15 years and talking to master brewers I think this is a load of crap advertising. I'd read that as it loses the smoke flavor first then everything else fades away to the point you can again taste what little smoke flavor is left.

careful there are some sensitive people on this thread

[BobM]

I also have home brewed for over a decade. Here's what I have learned.

- Any beer with complex components takes time to settle down. I would say its at its best about 3 months from bottling.
- I've made smoked Octoberfest beers in the past (never tried a smoked Porter though). One lesson, a little smoke flavor goes a long way. Subtelty is the name of the game here. You don't want it tasting like an Islay single malt. And yes, the smoke needs to settle down a bit, see rule 1. So if its overly smoky when you first receive it then 3-6 months sitting tight might improve it some. But if not, then I would drink away.
- Beer lasts about 1 year in the bottle before it really starts losing its character. I've stored beers (simple and complex) for a year or two just to see what happens. The character is gone after about 6-9 months. There is definitely a shelf life and several years storage is several years too many.

Now perhaps this brewer does something different. But if they're using malt, hops, water and yeast, with a little smoke flavoring (or perhaps real smoked malt), then I doubt very much that years of storage is what you really want to do. I would definitely recommend taking out a bottle and drinking it every month or two to see if its getting better or worse with age.

Of course, I could be totally wrong with this particular beer, but this is just my personal experience. Take and do what you will. It's your money, your time, your beer, and your enjoyment.

Bob

[Wayne1]

Brian,

In answer to your original questions: store the bottles vertically. I would suggest under the stairwell in a basemement, if possible. Keep them inside the case. Two of the biggest enemies of beer are light and variations in temps.

In order to store beer for long period, you first have to have a decent amount of alcohol. With a starting gravity of 1.065 and abv of 6.5 %, Alaskan Smoked Porter qualifies. A constant temparture is rather critical. Cellar temps of about 55 degrees F. are prefect. Whatever you do don't put it in an area where the temps will constantly change.

Even though Alaskan uses good 22 oz brown bottles, you want to keep light away from the beer. Keep the bottles in the case and keep separate bottles covered up.

For those that are not familar with Alaskan Smoked Porter, It has won eleven medals at the Great American Beer Festival in the smoked beer category since 1988, including 5 straight gold medals from 1991-1995. It started trading off with Rouge's smoked beer after that. BTW John Maier, Rogue's Brewmaster worked for Alaskan in the late 80's  when the smoked porter was being developed.

There is NO "smoke flaver" added. A certain amount of grain is taken across the street from the brewery to one of the local fish smokehouses and smoke it over alderwood. Each year it is a bit different and it is only brewed once a year.

The beer is brewed in Juneau, which is only accesible by sea or air. All the beer has to come out by ship. This has somewhat limited their distribution to just the Pacific Northwest. They have won OVER 30 medals at the Great American Beer Fest. They are without a doubt one of the BEST of the American microbreweries. Geoff and Marcie Larson, the owners, are both very good and down to earth people. I have known both since their first time coming down to Denver for GABF in' 87.

I was in fact honored enough to be one of a small group of folks who got to hang out in Geoff's hotel room in '88 when he brought down the first batch of smoked porter. He had a couple of kegs on ice in the bathtub surrounded by smoked salmon. That was one good night.

For the new guys who don't know my history, I have been brewing beer for over 20 years. My first entry into the National Homebrewing Competion won first place in Bock. I turned pro in '90, becoming Bremaster of the Hubcap Brewery in Vail, CO. During my time there, I won 7 medals at GABF and our sister location in Dallas, brewing my recipes, picked up another 4.

I left to go to work for Coors Brewing as the first person to hold the title of Brewmaster in 20 years. I opened the SandLot Brewing Compant at Coors Field and ran that for a couple of years. Also winning a few more medals. My protege, Tom Hail, has carried on quite well with SandLot winning best small brewery this year at GABF.

I am a Certified Beer Judge. I have judged in local, state, regional, national and international competions, including GABF and the World Beer Cup. I have published in Zymurgy and New Brewer. I have presented at the National Craftbrewer's Conference.

This year at RMAF, I brought some of the IPA I designed for the Rockyard Brewing Company in Castle Rock, CO to a get together. I know Zybar was there and I thinked he liked it