Music out of your computer?

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avahifi

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Music out of your computer?
« on: 17 Dec 2005, 09:49 pm »
Right now I am listening to music from my computer playing through my audio system, using a couple new things we have designed.

First we modified an inexpensive ADS Tech Instant Music box.  The box normally accepts a digital music signal via a USB from your computer and generates a two channel audio output for your music system, along with an optical digital output.  We intercepted the signal at the output of the D to A converter internally ahead of its analog filter and audio output circuits.  We then built a very high quality analog filter and audio output circuit of our own using our OmegaStar and Fet Valve filter and output circuits.  This can be built into our solid state or Ultra preamps in place of a phono circuit.  So using the modified Music Box and our filter and audio circuits we can get musical performance with an UNCOMPRESSED audio source (direct playback of a CD or a CD copied and stored on the computer) that is just as good as playback from a normal CD player and thru our DACs.  With compressed audio downloads, the musical performance will suffer, but still be as good as possible with a lossy source.

We could sell the circuit as a preamp option, along with the modified Music Box for those interested in using their computer to store their music and still wanting state of the art playback.  The price would be pretty rational as a preamp option, likely no more than $500 and would be easy to connect and use.

As an alternative, the modified Music Box can be used simply as a digital source for one of our complete DACs.  An additional optical to coax adaptor is necessary, but inexpensive.

So the question is, is there any interest in this as a product for them?  Does anybody want it?

Your comments would be appreciated.

Frank Van Alstine

pjchappy

Music out of your computer?
« Reply #1 on: 17 Dec 2005, 10:27 pm »
this may be just what I was looking for!!!

Brad

Music out of your computer?
« Reply #2 on: 19 Dec 2005, 03:43 pm »
Frank-

I think that's a really good idea.  For someone that wants to have a quiet computer in their audio room, your idea provides an excellent solution.

I would suggest that the reason people are using devices like the Squeezebox is to remove the computer completely from the audio room.

sts9fan

Music out of your computer?
« Reply #3 on: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14 pm »
Quote
With compressed audio downloads, the musical performance will suffer,


FLAC does not alter anything. Bit for bit it is the same. Same info same sound

philipp

Music out of your computer?
« Reply #4 on: 19 Dec 2005, 06:40 pm »
Quote
We intercepted the signal at the output of the D to A converter internally ahead of its analog filter and audio output circuits. We then built a very high quality analog filter and audio output circuit of our own using our OmegaStar and Fet Valve filter and output circuits.


So you're using ADS's DAC instead of your own? I'm glad to hear you're considering the computer as a viable source. I had opened a thread a short while ago about expanding your DAC to allow for more sources. It seems like it should become like a digital preamp, you know what I mean?

I think I have a pretty average collection of sources these days:

3 analog -- turntable, cable tv box, VCR
3 digital -- DVD, CD, computer

A high-end DAC is enticing but not if it only improves one source. To me, it would be the same as buying a great pre-amp that only has one set of RCA jacks.

Most of the digital sources I see these days offer both a S/PDIF and Toslink output. The computers are mostly stuck with USB and Firewire but USB to S/PDIF converters are out there (http://www.empiricalaudio.com/frComputer_Audio.html). Could you could offer a more affordable one?

In my opinion, a converter plus your DAC with three S/PDIF connections and a simple switch would be perfect.

pjchappy

Music out of your computer?
« Reply #5 on: 20 Dec 2005, 01:06 am »
Just to clarify, this WILL be a pre-amp?  If so, is it possible to have a 2nd set of outputs added?  THAT would fit my wants PERFECTLY. . .I'll be a beta tester. . . he-he-he. . .

p

Sine

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Music out of your computer?
« Reply #6 on: 20 Dec 2005, 11:28 pm »
First of all, YES, I believe people are going to want use their computer as a source for their audio system. It is extremely gratifying to be able to sample your entire music collection at the click of a mouse. I have been using an otherwise useless old iMac this way for a couple of years.
The problem is the audio output from a computer. Yuck. Bad analog. I digress.

Ummmm.... here is what I did based on what I hope are the right assumptions.

To get digital info from my computer to an outboard DAC (yes, yes, an Ultra DAC) I bought the M-Audio FireWire Audiophile. $350.

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FirewireAudiophile-main.html

This device has 2 firewire ports for connection to a computer firewire bus and S/PDIF digital I/O (as well as analog I/O, an internal DAC, and other stuff that I don't care to use).
In my scenario, a firewire cable runs from the Mac to the M-Audio box, which essentially converts the connection into a S/PDIF digital out. My assumption here, is that the digital I/O is pass-thru, and not altered in any way. (I think, therefore I never know).
This in turn runs to the AVA DAC.
I think that, in this scenario, the computer provides the exact same digital file (yes, uncompressed) as would the digital out from a cd player.
I've done some A B comparison between the digital out from a cd player the computer both playing the same program simultaneously. Switching between both, I can't tell the difference.

But then again, my wife says I never hear what she says.

Do this sound reasonable (ummm, no pun intended) or am I missing something?

Anyway, as to your post, are you proposing that this optional circuit would be used in lieu of an outboard ultra DAC?
$500 as opposed to $800 for the Omega DAC or $1600 for the Ultra DACs? Sounds like an attractive option.

philipp

Music out of your computer?
« Reply #7 on: 20 Dec 2005, 11:33 pm »
Frank,
Here's another device that converts USB to S/PDIF for $100: http://www.xitel.com/product_phfl.htm. Of course, there's also the popular Squeezebox for $300 that will take USB, Ethernet and wireless 802.11g and convert to S/PDIF and Toslink: http://www.slimdevices.com/.

Quote
So using the modified Music Box and our filter and audio circuits we can get musical performance... that is just as good as playback from a normal CD player and thru our DACs.


I'm curious, are you saying the DAC built into the Music Box gives performance "just as good" as your DAC? Is it your analog filter and audio output circuits that currently make your DAC special? Would you clarify this for us?

avahifi

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Music out of your computer?
« Reply #8 on: 21 Dec 2005, 12:35 am »
The DAC built into the Music Box is nowhere near as good as our own.  We were simply suggesting a rather easy to do and inexensive very good quality musical solution for getting good playback from computer to audio system.

A much better solution of course is coming out the digital audio output of the Music Box ahead of its DAC completely and into one of our free standing DACs and on to the music solution, a much better but more expensive solution.

Frank Van Alstine

Doublej

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Music out of your computer?
« Reply #9 on: 21 Dec 2005, 05:44 pm »
Frank,

I am having difficulty understanding exactly what you proposing.

Can you clarify?

Are you saying that:

1. You modifidied an ADS Intant Music box for better sound quality and want to sell it as a standalone USB based DAC for computer music?

2. You modified an ADS Instant Music box for better sound quality and want to sell it as a USB input DAC built into an AVA preamplifier?

3. Sonically, the best soltuion is to take a digital output from a computer and feed it to an AVA DAC? If so why modify an ADS Instant Music box, why not just purchase a device that deos this without needing to be modifed?

philipp

Music out of your computer?
« Reply #10 on: 21 Dec 2005, 06:58 pm »
Thanks for the response Frank. I was hoping the answer would be a resounding "no". Given that, I don't feel that "no more than $500" is an inexpensive solution. I bought something that's significantly better than my computer's built-in sound for $270. See M-Audio, HeadRoom, and some quality soundcard makers for products in this class. It seems like $250-350 is what folks are willing to pay for the step between a typical computer soundcard and a good outboard DAC. If you can provide an option in your preamps in that price range, I suspect you'll have a winner.