PMC fb1+ help :o

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yawner

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PMC fb1+ help :o
« on: 16 Dec 2005, 08:41 pm »
hi everyone!

I'm havin some trouble with with a pair of fb1+'s that I recently bought.
and I was thinking that maby you fine people could find it in your hearts to help a lost Swedish hi-fi soul?

I'll try to explain as good as I possibly can.

my fb1's are hooked up to an Arcam A85, bi-amping with Arcam P90 and the cd player is an Arcam cd73, cables are audiocuest "king cobra" and "slate"

now, I have been running the system for approxemately 75-100 hours and I must say I'm not happy at all, dont' get me wrong, the fb1's doesn't sound bad.
but, they are very bright and a bit "thin"....!
this is the source of my unhappyness.

I usually listen to music for hours at a time, but now my ears and my head gets tierd after just an hour or so!   :cry:

what I'm wondering is:

is my system a mismatch?

are the fb1+'s a "bright" set of loudspeakers?

is there anything I can do without spending a lot of $

I'm thinking of buying bryston powerpac 120 and a nice pre-amp... would this solve my problem or would the sound still be this bright?

what do you think?

humbly / yawner.

(please excuse my bad english, I don't get to use it very often!) :oops:

James Tanner

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PMC fb1+ help :o
« Reply #1 on: 17 Dec 2005, 01:40 pm »
HI,

I am not that familiar with the Arcam but when you say bi-amping do you mean your using 2 different Arcam amplifiers - one on the woofer - one on the tweeter.

If so make sure the 'gain' of both amplifiers are the same.

You can easily check by putting the speaker links back in and listen with just one amplifier.

CAUTION - remove the second set of speaker cables before listening to the one amp.

james

yawner

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PMC fb1+ help :o
« Reply #2 on: 17 Dec 2005, 03:23 pm »
thank you James, for taking interest in my problem!

yes I have tried this, but the speakers are still bright... maby even worse (lack of power?)
the  a85 has 85W per channel and the p90 has 90W per channel, and according to the manufacturer they have exacty the same gain.

I have even tried changing the speakercables with another brand! but no luck, still they sound very bright!

I really like these speakers otherwise. but if I'm not able to solve this problem, I'll have to return them to the dealer before the end of the month.
sad as hell, I really thougt that this was the speakers for me!

again, thanks // yawner

dan_lo

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PMC fb1+ help :o
« Reply #3 on: 17 Dec 2005, 05:24 pm »
Yawner,

All I can tell is from my lengthy experience with the FB1:
With Bryston Amps I don't feel the FB1+ is bright at all. The earlier version of the tweeter was brighter, but they addressed the problem.
It is, however, a bit thin.
I trust you liked the sound when you auditioned it in the shop. So - maybe your room acoustics has such an impact on the sound?

akhc

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PMC fb1+ help :o
« Reply #4 on: 17 Dec 2005, 07:32 pm »
I assume that you've connected them up so that they are both in phase? it maybe that you have connected them the amplifier driving the bass units with one speakers in "reverse" whilst the connections for the amp driving the tweeters is fine.

Maybe worth taking them back to the shop and having a listen against another set of speakers and see if there is a problem with the mid/bass drivers on one speaker. I remember having such a problem with my PMC IB1s midrange where the magnets surrounding the driver had become dislodged in transit leading to the driver becoming inactive. This did lead to a very peculiar soundstage which is how I picked the problem up. I imagine if this were to happen to one of your mid/bass drivers that it could lead to a thin sound as well.

Aside from that, well I have no actual experience with the FB1s. I do however have some experience with the Arcam sound and it is (to my ears) tuned to provide a brighter sound. in fact the very first amp I owned was an Arcam that was returned to the shop very quickly because it was somewhat to shrill for me. over the years I've heard a few more Arcam amps and I've always felt that they were great for detail but not a sound I could listen to for hours on end. what were your last pair of speakers before the PMCs if I may ask? it maybe that the PMCs are just providing a more accurate picture of the source/amp and as u say changing one/other make it sound better for u.

yawner

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PMC fb1+ help :o
« Reply #5 on: 18 Dec 2005, 08:17 pm »
yes, dan_lo. I liked the sound very much when I auditioned them, and I still do! it's just that in my home the fb1's seem to be playing in to my head and top of my spinal cord rather then to my ears! (if that makes any sense?)

akhc: my occupation is as an electrician, so I assure you that all wiring is made properly... checked it several times as well!  :wink:
however, I'm getting more and more convinced that arcam and pmc is a mismatch, as you suggest!
I had the B&W 805 matrix (sounded great!) wich I've sold already by the way :? ,before the fb1's, and before that, primare L30 wich was way do dark!
and before that snell E/III... and some others!  none of those play in the same league as pmc.

the question is, how do I move on from here?

I think I'll take them back to the dealer. hook them up there, and listen if there's any improvment...
and after that I'm gonna think long and hard of what I want to give my self for christmas!

thank you all for taking an interest

I will report back when decision is made!

humbly// yawner

declancd7q

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PMC fb1+ help :o
« Reply #6 on: 19 Dec 2005, 02:29 am »
Better still invite the dealer for pasta dinner and get him to listen to your system in the home environment.

If you speak to him about your problem, he may be able to bring along some alternate amps/cables (like vDH which I find very natural) that might improve the sound.

100 hrs burn-in is about right....but PMC has always been slow to break-in so it might depend on the volume level and type of music you've been using to burn in - a few burn-in discs played in repeat loop might be worthwhile.

Lastly check your room acoustics - is it particularly live (bare walls, wooden flooring etc), reflective etc.

mrtibbs

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PMC fb1+ help :o
« Reply #7 on: 26 Dec 2005, 03:16 am »
I have heard the original FB1, not the *plus*, but have heard the plus tweeter in the DB1+,...so I am guessing to some extent, perhaps within reason though:

I thought the FB1 was perhaps a little dry sounding, but not bright or explicitly sharp sounding,...the DB1+ is definitely not bright sounding either, not in the grand scheme of things.

First thing I'd look to is break in, just so that it can be eliminated as a possibility.  Here's what you can do:

Swap the L and R speaker connections on ONE of the the speakers.
Get a CD or other source that is mono only, not stereo and put it on *repeat*.
Face the speakers directly at each other, as close as possible and cover with as many quilts and blankets as you can.  
Hit *play* and turn it up,...leave *cooking* for 2 or 3 days.

Important to note how loud you can play this track before you set the whole thing up - what you've done above is hook the speakers up out of phase, so that when playing a mono track, each speaker will be playing an opposite signal of the other, i.e., when the two sounds meet, they will cancel each other out. .., so the speakers will actually be playing much louder than you hear.

The point of doing the above is that you can have the speakers playing really hard and jump start the break-in without having to live with the pounding loud music.

When that's done, look to the room acoustics.  Is it a bright room?  Little heavy furnishing?  Hard floor?  Lots of glass?  etc.

And another perhaps helpful point is that I have heard the Arcam A85 and did not find it bright.  

I find the DB1+ is pretty revealing and likes quality electronics.  For example, the Naim Nait 3R is exposed as not good enough and the Nait 5i  makes great music.  Haven't heard the combo, but would be surprised if the Arcam was not up to the task,...I'd explore the other options before giving up on the amp or the combo,..

Best of luck with the experiments, M.