[Tbadder1]

Well, well, well, the Herron 150M monoblocks have arrived and after six/seven hours of listening I've got some things to say. There are major differences that I'll have to sort through before I go in depth, but as many of you know I was using a Clayton Audio S40 and the thought among more than a few was that its 50 watts per was way underpowered for the Continuums.  Even though they were rock solid down to 1 ohm they just didn't have the headroom needed to do the Continuums justice.  Well it's late and I don't want to spout off, but I'm fascinated--simply fascinated by the early returns.    

[lonewolfny42]

Well it's late and I don't want to spout off, but I'm fascinated--simply fascinated by the early returns.

... ....I knew you would be....   [/list:u]
Happy listening...[/list:u]
Chris[/list:u]

[bhobba]

Well, well, well, the Herron 150M monoblocks have arrived and after six/seven hours of listening I've got some things to say. There are major differences that I'll have to sort through before I go in depth, but as many of you know I was using a Clayton Audio S40 and the thought among more than a few was that its 50 watts per was way underpowered for the Continuums.  Even though they were rock solid down to 1 ohm they just didn't have the headroom needed to do the Continuums justice.  Well it's late and I do ...

Keep us all posted.  Intereting stuff.  My money for what its worth is on that at medium volume levels there will be little difference with any difference favouring the claytons.  Are you using an SPL meter to match levles for comparisons?  A voltmeter at the speakers is probably best - but I have found an SPL meter to be ok.  Some however claim even a .2 db difference is audible.  

Thanks
Bill

[lonewolfny42]

Hello Bill,

My money for what its worth is on that at medium volume levels there will be little difference with any difference favouring the claytons.

[/list:u]

How would you describe "medium volume" Bill...what db's ? Medium can mean many things to different people. Thanks !! [/list:u]
Chris[/list:u]

[bhobba]

Hi Chris

How would you describe "medium volume" Bill...what db's ? Medium can mean many things to different people.

I think people would describe what I listen at as low (under 80db at about 1 meter from the speakers) although for the vocalists like cranky franky I mostly listen to it sounds quite natural to me.  To me loud is 85db average and above at the listening position - that equates to the level of a power mower and what you need to wear protective gear for.  Medium is between those two - so between about 75-84 db at the listening position.  For the Continuums producing 91db for your 8 ohm watt this equates to 86db at 2 meters with one watt being fed to both channels so I would say about 1/2 watt average or with 20 db headroom 50w max.  Since the claytons are reputed to have plenty of headroom above 50W they should not break a sweat at those levels.  Raise it to rock concert levels and even the Herron's are likely to give up.  So if Tbadder listens at less than 85 db from his 2 meter position I suspect the Clayton would be fine.  It may even be a little better than the Herron's because of its class A operation.  I have never really heard a great difference between amps but Leo Simpson, a well known electronics writer here in Australia, claimed a class A amp he designed sounded considerably cleaner than other amps.  I would think about building one or getting someone to build one for me except it puts out 15w - a bit small for the timepieces 85db even ay my listening levels.

Should he find anything different (such that the Herron sounds better at all volume levels) from my pserspective it would be very interesting indeed.

Thanks
Bill

[Tbadder1]

So what's the old Saturday Night Live skit "A Tale of Two Titties"?  That how I feel when I compare the Merron 150M Monoblocks to the Clayton S40.  I just wanna laugh outloud when putting them side by side, but in either case I want to keep sucking at the teat when listening to either.  I wish I was one of those guys who could afford to keep both, but such is the ill-fortune blown my way.  

The reality of the matter is that these are almost completely opposite, and I say "almost" because I'd like to fool myself into thinking I can be objective and stay away from superlatives, nevers, ans alwayses.  But really they are opposites plain and simple.  Those who claim that solid state amps sound essentially the same gotta hear these side by side.  I'm telling you one titty is vanilla and the other is chocolate.  

First off the Herrons are really unobtrusive, small lightweight, very plain but with the reassuring class that comes with non-flashy gear.  Out of the box these monos tell you they were made for music not some fashion statement. I love the protection circuitry.  There are three stages that come on board brfore you want to light up the night with song, taking approximately 30 seconds to settle itself in.  After the very certain "click"  you can party like it's 1999--although as I get older this is increasingly difficult.

Before I get on to the differences in the sound the thing I noticed right away was how cool these run.  After seven hours of continuous playing I could keep a glass of ice water on it.  I swear to god it was cooler than the room temp.  With the Clayton 100watts of pure Class A I could heat the room almost as well as my 300B (Agape Audio Labs--my jewel in the crown, and yes, I know you've never heard of it, and yes, I hope it stays that way--shhhhhh).   This was the first opposite.  

Now the problem for some all along was the Clayton's inability to kick out the jams and really let the Continuums strut their stuff.  At 91db I thought the Claytons were doing a great job, plus I don't listen to music that loud normally.  But still the unanimous verdict here on the A-Circle was that pumping a little iron was in order.  So naturally I wanted to rock right outta the box.  Now, normally I like to listen at 80 to 85db.  And the Claytons sounded glorious at 91db with peaks at about 100db.   Once up to 93 to 95 the S40 seemed gassed. Bass was there but lacked punch.  The Herrons on the other hand were perfectly okay with 100db and peaks of 111. No distortion, no uncomfortable squeal up top, and no indication of giving up.  Comparing them directly at 91db the Herrons bass went lower and had physicality, the walls vibrated.  The Claytons could not do this or go as low.  The upper bass was a different story though.  The Claytons gave body and weight, there was a wholeness to notes that the Herrons couldn't duplicate.  I've read interviews with the amp's creator and his express interest was to build an amp free of artifacts.  What some audiophiles call wholeness and weight he calls distortion.  Well, these are certainly distortion free.  Clean--clean--clean, a very next to godliness sound indeed.

And the same was true of the treble.  The upper treble that I hinted was missing on the Continuums was there, no mistake about it.  Extended, sweet in the splendor sense rather than pure cane juice, but not etched, hard, or analytical.  Again, the Claytons couldn't coax that kind of result out of the Continuums.  But...and there's always a butt to go along with these two titties, the lower treble, which I thought was literally amazing with the Claytons was noticeably drier with the Herrons.  The tweeter just didn't seem like it was digging deep and recovering all the info.  The info that was there was accurate and realistically recreated, but something was missing.  With the Claytons the whole speaker from lower treble to upper bass seemed so coherent, so true, so single driver-like, but with the Herron's emphasis on clarity the overall presentation made the music seem less put together.  Now don't get me wrong.  It was still fascinating, still captured my attention, and I heard things I simply couldn't with the Claytons.  But time and time again the same was true vice-versa.

In the midrange vocals were particularly opposite.  With the Herrons the vocals were pushed back surrounded by instruments, rather than outfront with the Claytons.  The Herron vocals seemed more delicate, but lyrics were easier to hear, muddle and buzz had definitely been stripped away.  With the Claytons voices were sexier, more imperfect.  Tonal qualities were more realistic even if pronunciation levels weren't as exacting as the Herrons.  The Herrons take a little time to get used to in the midrange because everything's there just not thrown overhand hardball style at the listener.  

Now this is starting to sound like a comparison between a tube amp (Clayton) and solid state amp (Herrons).  And some of that might be true if it weren't for the truthfulness of both amps.  A truthfulness that most tube amps enhance.  Instead think of the Herrons as concave and the Claytons as convex.  There are recesses but without hardly any loss of materiality.  Each sounds 95% whole, we're talking about accumulated nuances that eventually lead up to something fundamental. When listening without comparing both amps are absolutely convincing, and that's probably the important point they share in common.

So what's the final conclusion.  Afterall one of these amps has to go (unless someone wants to dump about 5000 in my lap for the best damn 300B this side of Loth-X/Zanden).  Well, the SP Techs just like the Herrons better even though the Claytons are more musical.  What I really found out is that the Continuums want the Clayton bad boys, the 250/500 watters that I can't afford unless the lottery spits outs some mega-dosh.

To put a more emotional point on it I learned that an excellent amp can be more effective than a world class amp given the right set of circumstances.  I'll admit to being a little disappointed.  Someone is going to get my fav amp of all time for about 1800/1900 bucks and whoever buys it is gonna think I'm nuts, and they'll be right.  I see there's a Clayton going for 1700 on Audiogon right now.  That guy's got no respect unless that thing's five years old.  Go buy it now my A-Circle friends, that way you won't be tempted to buy mine and I can figure out someway to keep them both.  Geez, I'm bummed.

[bhobba]

Hi Tbadder

Very interesting comparison.  Not what I expected at all.  I expected them to be close up to about 90db when the claytons would run out of puff.  I thought the Herrons would go to about 100db.  I think you found that.  To me I would never go to those levels so the Herron would be overkill.  However if you want to go to those levels then that's OK.  I expected the Herrons to sound slightly cleaner.  However it seems you found much more than that.  Very interesting indeed.  If anyone has an explanation I would be interested.

Someone is going to get my fav amp of all time for about 1800/1900 bucks and whoever buys it is gonna think I'm nuts, and they'll be right.

Your not crazy getting what you want.  The only suggestion I have is to listen to a lot more amps before deciding on the Herron. For example the amps of Van Alstine look pretty good and whack out 250 watts which really should give those speakers a workout.  
http://www.avahifi.com/root/equipment/amplifier/fetvalve_550ex.htm
Then there are the Nuforce amps everyone is talking about.

I am really itching to get my Timepieces and check out various amps.  But the finances dictate I wait so that will need happen in the future.  Of course when I do it I will post what I think.

Thanks
Bill

[bhobba]

Hi again Tbadder.

I reread your post and had some further thoughts

The Claytons gave body and weight, there was a wholeness to notes that the Herrons couldn't duplicate. I've read interviews with the amp's creator and his express interest was to build an amp free of artifacts. What some audiophiles call wholeness and weight he calls distortion. Well, these are certainly distortion free. Clean--clean--clean, a very next to godliness sound indeed.

My initial thoughts were that at medium listening levels they would be close with the Herrons, maybe being a little cleaner.  From what you say above I may not have been far off the mark.  Could you prefer a bit of distortion?  Nothing wrong with that just as long as you understand that is what it is.  For example the air, sparkle and sizzle people speak of about ribbon tweeters is probably a form of distortion - yet some people go right off over it.  As mentioned in another post that is not what I look for in treble - I look for something I call 'sweetness'.  If you have ever heard it, the audax HD3P had it in spades - finest tweeter I ever heard.  Can hardly wait to hear Bobs - I suspect it will be the same.

Thanks

[Karsten]

Tbadder,

If you have the possibility, you should audition your Continuums with the new Belles 350A Referance as well. It does very well with the SP's

Karsten

[lonewolfny42]

Tbadder,

If you have the possibility, you should audition your Continuums with the new Belles 350A Referance as well. It does very well with the SP's

Karsten

I wonder if Tbadder/Dan was able to try this ???

How's it working out Dan ?[/list:u]
Chris[/list:u]

[zybar]

Not sure if it's in your price range, but the McCormacn DNA-500 is a special amp that will handle all that is thrown at it.

At a lower price point I would try the CI Audio D200.

Both the Clayton and Herron amps are excellent and would do well in almost any system out there.

George