Help with picking next speaker project please!!!

bear-hifi · « **on:** 11 Dec 2005, 08:55 pm »

Ok, I sold all my other speaker projects and now I am trying to decided between the following!!!

Denies Murphy’s MB0W1 3-Way which will cost me around $800

Or Selah Audio DayTek array using eight Dayton RS-180 7" woofers for $800

http://www.selahaudio.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/daytekarray.jpg

Or Danny’s bad to bone speakers that cost $1200. I don’t know if I could come up with the money before the end of Dec… After that Danny will no longer carry the kit. Why that is I don’t know….

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=21620&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

db is not a issue as I have about any amp for the job… Heathkit, ST70, Mac 2125s.

Any advices or thoughts or impute would be much appreciated

Thank you for your time

Frank

JoshK · « **Reply #1 on:** 11 Dec 2005, 09:01 pm »

If my opinion is worth anything, I'd think those Selah line arrays would offer the most bang for the buck and you can upgrade them into full on line arrays later on by adding the rest of the tweeters. Those line arrays of Selah's are some seriously good speakers.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #2 on:** 11 Dec 2005, 09:02 pm »

Have you considered the SP Technology Essence kit? They will provide you with the Waveguide baffle, drivers (I think) and crossover shematic.

You build the rest of the cabinet and the crossover with your choice of components.

Just another option to consider.

Watson · « **Reply #3 on:** 11 Dec 2005, 10:08 pm »

If you're going to drive the speakers with a tube amp, it's worth noting that the MBOW1 2-way and 3-way both have about the most benign impedance curve you'll find, narrowly varying between 4 and 6 ohms except at the low frequency cutoff, so they should be a good match with tube amps. Though they are somewhat inefficient.

warnerwh · « **Reply #4 on:** 11 Dec 2005, 11:59 pm »

In my opinion the Selah would be the way to go. The sound of each of the three will be different and if you have any way of hearing any of them that would be a good idea.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 Dec 2005, 12:18 am »

Quote

Selah Audio DayTek array using eight Dayton RS-180 7" woofers for $800

Just my opinion here but if I were building these speaker, I would opt for the 5" drivers. It is my opinion that a smaller driver (up to 5 inch) would provide better midrange qualities. A very impressive looking speaker that has the ability to look like a million bucks if good craftsmnaship is utilized and the right finsih (preferably real wood veneer

) is choosen.

Ley us know what you end up with.

Christof · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 Dec 2005, 04:34 am »

I second Bill Bakers idea about the SP Essence kit. While this kit is not one you mentioned in your post, it certainly deserves your consideration. There is something about the waveguide that really brings these speakers to life. See a great review by Audiojerry here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=23318.msg206552#206552

Rick Craig also does a great job. I have not built nor heard his line arrays but I do own and enjoy his Chalcedony 4-way design.

JLM · « **Reply #7 on:** 12 Dec 2005, 12:50 pm »

Apples and oranges, conventional WT or WMT design versus line array, the imaging/room loading will be different. This decision should be the first you answer IMO.

goskers · « **Reply #8 on:** 12 Dec 2005, 01:02 pm »

I completely agree here. If you have any possibility to listen to a line array then do so first. I personally like the presentation a lot better than a point source. I have heard many different point source speakers and like an array for most all music except of which is closely miked.

bear-hifi · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 Dec 2005, 01:49 pm »

Quote from: JLM

Apples and oranges, conventional WT or WMT design versus line array, the imaging/room loading will be different. This decision should be the first you answer IMO.

Could you please tell me more about the imaging/room loading?

Thanks

bear-hifi · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 Dec 2005, 01:52 pm »

Quote from: Christof

I second Bill Bakers idea about the SP Essence kit. While this kit is not one you mentioned in your post, it certainly deserves your consideration. There is something about the waveguide that really brings these speakers to life. See a great review by Audiojerry here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=23318.msg206552#206552

Rick Craig also does a great job. I have not built nor heard his line arrays but I do own and enjoy his Chalcedony 4-way design.

I couldnt find any kits listed on thier webpage... Would it be listed somewhere eles?

Thanks

Danny Richie · « **Reply #11 on:** 12 Dec 2005, 02:26 pm »

Quote

Or Danny’s bad to bone speakers that cost $1200. I don’t know if I could come up with the money before the end of Dec… After that Danny will no longer carry the kit. Why that is I don’t know….

There is a new company that will be offering those as commercial speakers sold through a dealer network and hi end stores all over the US. I can't offer kits and allow them to be available as commercial speakers as that would cause a conflict of interest.

But I will allow the hobbyist that want to build them to do so for a short time before they are made available to dealers as finished products.

Let me know ahead of time when you are ready to build a set and I'll make them available to you so long as they are pre-ordered before I discontinue availability (not pre-paid for, just pre-ordered).

If you are looking for the best bang for the buck array then you might want to look at the RA8 kit that RAW Acoustics offers. It does not have the output variances (6db verses 3db per distance doubling) that are typical when combining a point source tweeter with an array of woofers.

Christof · « **Reply #12 on:** 12 Dec 2005, 03:26 pm »

Below is the kit offer from Bob at SP Tech. I think he probably doesn't publish it on his site because he is just offering the kit as a favor to us here at Audio Circle? Depending on your budget you might be able to get a pair of the new 96db MTM version he is working on which I believe he calls the AV2.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=22199

kfr01 · « **Reply #13 on:** 12 Dec 2005, 05:20 pm »

Line array curiousity.

There's been some discussion in this threat regarding the fundamental differences between line arrays and point source. I'm curious and would like to know more. Can anyone recommend any books or good links regarding the physics behind the line array theory?

My current "loudspeaker design cookbook" stops well short.

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #14 on:** 12 Dec 2005, 07:57 pm »

I think this is the only public document ever really made on the subject. Further exploration has been done by some of our AC guys, Rick and Danny

http://www.audiodiycentral.com/resource/pdf/nflawp.pdf

kfr01 · « **Reply #15 on:** 12 Dec 2005, 08:07 pm »

Quote from: ooheadsoo

I think this is the only public document ever really made on the subject. Further exploration has been done by some of our AC guys, Rick and Danny

http://www.audiodiycentral.com/resource/pdf/nflawp.pdf

Thank you, this looks like a wonderful resource.

ctviggen · « **Reply #16 on:** 12 Dec 2005, 08:13 pm »

I like that article, although his statement of "You may not use the information herein for commercial applications unless you obtain agreement from me" isn't technically valid under US law. A copyright protects the words, but does not protect use of the words. For instance, a copyright on a recipe protects against making copies of the recipe, but not against one who makes and sells cookies according to the recipe. The latter is covered by patent law (i.e., a patent could be used to protect against one making and selling cookies according to a "recipe" disclosed and claimed in a patent).