[GHM]

Hi Randy
I would like to try my hand at these mods one day.Money is the problem for me too.
I am satisfied with the results at the moment.I changed the cord to a heavy 14 gauge belden power cord and plugged the Dac into the wall.Man it made everything better! So no power conditioning needed here.

I knew it was something special about this Dac. Especially when a very good friend prefered it to his Arcam FMJ DV27.

Paul ...I know you want to keep it simple my friend.But without a volume control in between the the Dac and the Amplifier. You would drive the amplifier to full volume. Your SB2 would just become a transport not a preamp in this configuration. Correction..Well from what Randy says maybe it will work .Hey you can always try it and see.

[randytsuch]

Randy,

I would be very interested to know how the SB3 turns out.  My current experience with the RWA SB2/Patek/FTA2000 is very positive.  The SB2 is a fully battery modded unit, but if the AS NOS DAC can offer further benefits I will certainly look into it.

BTW, how do you control the volume?  I asked GH ...

The SB3 volume control still works with an external DAC, just like it would with the analog outputs.  It is controlling the volume in the digital domain.

I am going to see how close the SB3 analog out can get to my NOS dac, but right now the dac is noticably better.  If you can solder, you can buy the NOS dac as a kit, and it is cheap for what you get.  Pretty easy to put together too, but my dac still does not have a case.

Randy

[Paul_Bui]

Thanks Randy for the good news about using SB built-in volume control with an external DAC.

Tonight I listened to four different albums:  Andreas Vollenweider's Book of Roses, FIM's Audiophile Reference III (XRCD), Mapleshade Records' The Art of the Ballad, and Julian Bream's The Ultimate Collection Volume 2.  They all sounded excellent, with the XRCD the most musical, most extended and highest resolution.  The classical guitar tracks are the more bandwidth limited, sounding leaner yet still very satisfying.  All of them were ripped to hard drive using EAC in security mode.

I had listened to the above albums, among others, year after year.  This is, however, the first time they all sounded musicall in a row.  Although I played them loud enough to fill the room with good sound and deep tight bass impact, there wasn't a sense of fatigue.  By the way, brass cones have been put under the FTA2000s to help tighten the bass further.  Upper frequencies seemed to benefit, too.

[GHM]

Since we're discussing some mixing and matching of components. I had a talk with Mikhail Rotenberg of Single Power yesterday. I was expecting my tubed eq/ buffer stage this past week. Unfortunetly because of the Christmas rush. Mikhail wasn't able to finish it in time. To say I was disappointed is a understatement.

To make a long story short. Mikhail offered to send me one of his other units to play with while he tweaked my unit. Which is the first of its production to use the 6SN7 tubes. I happily agreed, so within the next couple of days I should receive one of his MPX3 models as reviewed by 6moons. The difference being this unit is tricked out with parts upgrades including a 600 volt 99dB-efficient Vanderveen-designed Plitron transformer.It is also both a head amp and a preamp. My only regret is knowing there's no way at the moment I could afford to keep this preamp that sells for just under $2000.It could be a painful experience in the end . Especially if it's as good as the less expensive model I've read about on Srajan's web site. This unit may prove to be a great match for the Audio Sector amplifiers as the Modwright is said to be.


It will be a bitter sweet moment I'm certain.  If nothing else this will be fun. Let the games begin!

[JLM]

GHM,

Thanks so much for helping all of us explore the possibilities.  

Over the years several have commented on the synergy between chip amps and single driver speakers.  After Dusty Vawter (Channel Islands Audio) moved on from chip based to digital amps I'm glad to see Peter Daniels (Audio Sector) continue on.  Of course Scott Nixon still slugs on with his chip amps, but honestly Peter's stuff looks so much better and better built for a couple hundred dollars more it'd be hard to buy from Scott (unless you like the DIY look/feel).  One good sign for all these chip amps, I don't find them for resale very often.

This combination of chip and single driver seems so natural, simple with simple, it should be "simple" to "grok" (a term coined by Robert Heinlein in "Stranger from a Strange Land").  But as most of the single driver crowd comes in from the high efficiency/SET camp, it has remained a small niche.  From the other direction guys like Dusty never had warmed up to the single driver scene (typically fussy, weird speakers with no bass).

I just received a fully modded Red Wine Audio Squeeze Box 3, but where are you guys finding out about the Audio Sector DAC?  And while I'm asking, how does the Patek compare to the earlier Peter Daniels integrated amps.  (As I recall he had a less expensive one available for a while that had multiple inputs and a single volume control.)  Just don't ask me to go back into the super long DIYaudio chip amp thread.  

[GHM]

Hi JLM,

The integrated is basically the Patek in a single chassis. You can get the Patek Se performance in one chassis for under $1000. In integrated form it's $1055 with the BlackGate N upgrade. These amplifiers all use the same chips 3875. The sound will be the same. As one poster has said the Patek Se cost is more about the chassis than performance. You can contact Peter and he can direct you to more info on the Dac. The thread has gotten so long now it's harder to find the info in the thread..unless you know where to look. As far as I know the integrated is $995.00 before the N cap upgrade of $60. The regular amplifier in the same chassis maybe or should be a little cheaper. Since you have no volume pot or selector switch.

Congrats on the new purchase of the Redwine SB3..enjoy the new toy!


I'm glad that Peter Daniel and Scott Nixon are still hanging in there. As they both make terrific sounding equipment. I guess I went in the opposite direction as Dusty. After living with several digital amplifiers. I find the Chip amp to be the best fit for the speakers and my taste in music. To get the transparency and speed of these amplifiers in conventional solid state, I'm sure you would have to spend much more money. I haven't heard or owned a SS or tube amplifier with the balance , density or  dynamic contrast of the Chip amps. Too bad this type of amplifier only works well on speakers that are a friendly load.

[JLM]

GHM,

Paul Bui helped me to complete the EAC/FLAC/SB setup yesterday, so I'm ripping away and burning in both the RWA SB and a stock Teac AL700P (and not suffering much at all).

The next step will be converting my S7700 transport, Ack dAck! v.2, Clari-T, and Teac into a new amp and room treatments with a minimum influx of cash (after going over budget on the new house).

The 2.0 v output from the SB is a let down from the high output I have on the Ack dAck! in terms of ultimate spls (somehow its pretty much a wash between Ack dAck!/Clari-T and SB/Teac).

I'll be interested to find out how you and Paul feel about the Patek/FTA-2000 pairing.

[GHM]

GHM,

Paul Bui helped me to complete the EAC/FLAC/SB setup yesterday, so I'm ripping away and burning in both the RWA SB and a stock Teac AL700P (and not suffering much at all).

The next step will be converting my S7700 transport, Ack dAck! v.2, Clari-T, and Teac into a new amp and room treatments with a minimum influx of cash (after going over budget on the new house).

The 2.0 v output from the SB is a let down from the high output I have on the Ack dAck! in terms of ultimate spls (somehow its pret ...

JLM when you say it's a wash. Do you mean the two sound the same? Your Ack dAck! must have the higher output option of 2 volts. I thought the SB3 output was a little less than 2 volts.  Also I'm curious that you don't notice the power difference between the Teac and the ClariT  when feeding the FTA-2000s? Have you tried using the Ack dAck! in the mix between the SB3 and the Teac? I noticed several owners prefered running a separate Dac in between it and the amplifier.

I noticed when feeding my amplifier with the modded Pioneer the sound was lifeless when comparing it to a Dac that used a good linear power supply. Everything seem to suffer from the dynamics to imaging with an output less than 2.0 volts or better.

I didn't notice this when I ran seperate powered subs and speakers that rolled off below 70 Hz.

[Paul_Bui]

Jeff, it's nice talking to you over the phone yesterday.  I'm so glad you took care of the network setup, and what was left for me to fill in is trivial:  to tell Slim Server where to find your music library.  I was in much less controlled a situation before I called Vinnie up and had him walk me through the network setup.

Gymane, I think Jeff definitely realized the benefit of more power feeding the FTA-2000s when he first hooked up the stock Teac to his speakers.      I'm sure he noticed it way before I did recently.  But Jeff also had the opportunity to compare his stock Clari-T (with volume pot) to several performers, and the T came out as his favorite.  I can imagine the fully upgraded ClariT in monoblock configuration paired with Zu Druids or Definitions will really shine.  Like Vinnie once said, "It's all about synergy".

The FTA-2000s don't seem to be THAT easy a load, especially with the BSC circuits installed.  That's why I noticed a drop in performance with 10w or less amps driving the filtered FTA-2000s.

Given that I have not heard Peter's NOS DAC, I'm quite happy with the way the SB2/Patek/FTA2000s combo plays music: profound bass, low level details, readily available peaks when the music demands, deep and wide soundstage.

It's good to hear about SinglePower products, too.

[GHM]

Jeff, it's nice talking to you over the phone yesterday.  I'm so glad you took care of the network setup, and what was left for me to fill in is trivial:  to tell Slim Server where to find your music library.  I was in much less controlled a situation before I called Vinnie up and had him walk me through the network setup.

Gymane, I think Jeff definitely realized the benefit of more power feeding the FTA-2000s when he first hooked up the stock Teac to his speakers.      I'm sure he noticed it way before  ...

Hi my friend,

Paul...I more curious than anything else with what JLM heard between his ClariT and the Teac. I know the Teac isn't modded though. This would make a difference in sound quality as well. Just wondering if he has mixed and matched the components yet. Also I'm not sure if Jeff uses his BSC unit or not.

As for the FTA-2000s..they are actually a very friendly load with the BSC installed. Check out the graph with the BSC in the path compared to not having it. The amplifier if of sufficient power will be much happier with the steady impedance and electrical phase angle.

This plot is the farfield impedance plot. Black is the filtered plot and the red unfiltered. However, the red plot does not have the zobel.

[JLM]

GHM,

My set-up at the time:

FTA-2000 (I believe without the compensation circuit at that time)
Sony S7700 CD/DVD transport
Ack dAck v.2 with high resolution and high output options
Clari-T with 2nd input and both mini-toggles on the front

It took 5 seconds changing out the Clari-T for the stock Teac to convince me of the advantage of the additional 6 dB of gain afforded by the Teac.  It immediately reminded me of the 8 inch transmission line woofers I had 20 years ago (I. M. Fried design).  Now I had full, deep bass.

Yes, soon after getting the FTA-2000s I had the opportunity to compare amps.  My older Rotel was a work horse (solid and handled bass test tones best of all).  A Decware Torii, 12 wpc push pull was a big step forward in detail, dynamics, and tone (but had electrical problems, maybe just a bad tube out of the box - I'm a tube novice, bloated bass, and stumbled badly with the bass test tones).  A 100 wpc JVC was next and provided 80% of the best of solid state and tubes (but the build quality was terrible).  Finally was a DIY chip amp that shown brilliance but had a loud 60 Hz power supply hum and picked up 94.9 FM like nothing I've ever had before.

The Clari-T sounded better than any of the above, with the best bass control, detail, and dynamics.  Even before the Teac the math told me that the Clari-T didn't have enough power and I sensed it too.  IMO the ideal amp must have sufficient guts to provide a commanding grip on the speaker.

Somehow I had the way wrong compensation circuits originally.  All the amp comparisons were done without them as the Torii bloated the bass so much and most of the time physical constraints in our old house forced me to push the speakers against a wall.  But I found the schematic on Bob's forum and rebuilt them.  They do provide tighter, deeper bass and a more noticable treble.  I'll tweak them further after everything, including room treatments, are in place.  Currently bass performance is not as good here in the new dedicated listening room, but the front of the room is bare awaiting the treatments.

The Red Wine Audio fully modded Squeeze Box 3 will replace the S7700 and Ack dAck!  Currently the plan is the replace the Clari-T with a RWA modding of the Teac and then develop room treatments.

IMO the problem with the Clari-T and the BSC is as you said, sufficient power.

[mca]

Great deal on a Patek on Audiogon  

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1141501870

[GHM]

Man...  that is a killer Deal!!   I wish this came up several months ago. I would have bought it myself. JLM ..here's your chance to get one at half price.There will be no radio transmissions eminating from them.

[JLM]

Too late!  The audio equipment cash flow isn't there quite yet anyway.  
And I have a line on pair of almost new Channel Island VMB-1's (40 wpc monoblocks for even less) from a very nice guy I've dealt with.  BTW he uses F200A drivers in open baffles and reports in room response down around 40 Hz!

[GHM]

That's great JLM..I'm always trying to find those killer deals myself.
I've spent the last couple of hours listening to this MPX3 Slam. The Slam mod adds Blackgates and Plitron transformer . It also changes the tube configuration. Instead of 3 6SN7s. There's one 6SN7 for the input stage and two 5687 for the output.

Guys I've got to tell you I have never heard a tubed preamp sound this damn good! I don't know why it sounds the way it does .It makes real music! I guess I can understand why folks like the Modwright with the Patek. It uses those 5687 tubes also.

Mikhail has stumbled upon one hellavu combination. 6SN7 mixed with the 5687 tubes. There's tone but no slowness or cloudiness. It  agile with with the tightest bass I've heard from a tubed preamp. Cymbals and strings
bite..but there's no edge. There's nothing clinical about it but there's nothing fluffy either. It seems to run down the middle of both extremes.

The unit was already burned in so I didn't have to wait on that. It only took and hour for me to realize the reviews on these units are true blue!!

Mikhail sent me several different tubes to try out in the unit.
I had been using the Electro Harmonix in the 6NS7 slot. I changed it to a NOS Tung-sol tube..instantly I could hear the difference. Clear and vibrant in comparison to the Harmonix which mask some of the details but sounded a little warmer. I'm running NOS Sylvania 5687s in the outputs. The combination is killer!!!!

I'll be sending this unit back in a week or so. I strongly urge you JLM and Paul or any one else looking for a tubed preamp to get this unit in your system for a listen. I'm sure Mikhail would let you try it out . Now I must call him and see if I can get the same sound without the extra volume control.


Good listening!

[JLM]

Correction:  Vinnie informed me today that the output of the RWA modded SB3 is only 1 V rms (with no easy/good way to correct it).  He has my Clari-T in the shop and will tweak it to up the output a bit.

So Mikhail's Single Power pre-amp looks to be a most viable option.  Maybe the IRS will help me out before spring (May/June in Michigan).

[GHM]

Yes my friend it is a terrific option. If nothing else try it out with your current gear for no more than probably shipping. It only weighs 10 lbs but O'boy it sounds like it weighs 100lbs.This is one of those items when you buy it..you'll never look back.

As much as I liked the Eastern Electric MiniMax...the EE Mini isn't in the same Ballpark with the sound this preamp puts out.

[guest1632]

That's great JLM..I'm always trying to find those killer deals myself.
I've spent the last couple of hours listening to this MPX3 Slam. The Slam mod adds Blackgates and Plitron transformer . It also changes the tube configuration. Instead of 3 6SN7s. There's one 6SN7 for the input stage and two 5687 for the output.

Guys I've got to tell you I have never heard a tubed preamp sound this damn good! I don't know why it sounds the way it does .It makes real music! I guess I can understand why folks like the  ...

Ok, so can you give me some info. I think I missed something somewhere.  Sorry, who is this Mikhail and his "Single Power Preamp?" That definitely sounds most interesting. Thanks.

Ray

[Paul_Bui]

Hi Ray,

Here are several links:

http://singlepower.com/

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/singlepower/mpx3.html

http://www.soundstage.com/allinyourhead/allinyourhead200410.htm

The SB2/Patek/FTA2000 trio is giving me so much happiness within the last few short days, that I have decided to postpone any further major upgrade consideration.  Perhaps a shorter killer pair of interconnects would be OK, but that would be it.

On the other hand, I believe the SinglePower headphone/pre amps and/or AS NOS DAC should be in the short list of anyone who's looking for components in those categories and fidelity rank.  In fact, I have put them in my secret wish list.

[maxwalrath]

GHM, I think I might be looking at the wrong link. the MPX3 doesn't seem to have any outputs in it's standard form. you are using it as a pre, not as a phone amp, right? how do you have it hooked up? The 6moons one looks like it only has 1 set of inputs and a phone out.