Hypex UCD-180AD Monoblocks?

audioferret · « **on:** 8 Dec 2005, 05:55 am »

I am now planning a Dual-Mono Amplifier Design using the Hypex UCD-180AD Digital Class D amplifier from DIYCable.com

Power Supply
Power Cord Volex Shielded 3-Connect (Mouser)
Input IEC Shurter 15A Power Entry/Switch (Mouser)
Filter Schurter 20A Filter Block (Mouser)
Toroid Avel 330VA 30-30 (PartsExpress)
Filter Caps 2X: FilmFoil PolyPro 100nF, 400V (PercyAudio)
Rectifier 2X: Fairchild 27A, 600V IXYS Bridge (PercyAudio)
Power Caps 4X: Nichicon 10KuF, 50V Superthru (PercyAudio)

Amplifier Unit
Filter Caps 2X 100nF 400V (PercyAudio)
2X 100uF 100V Nichicon KZ (PercyAudio)
RC Filter 2X 680nF 400V (PercyAudio)
2X Caddock 1R, 20W (PercyAudio)
Amplifer Hypex UCD-180AD (DIYCable)
Heat Sink DIYCable Aluminum Heat Sink (DIYCable)

Each Amp has an outboard power supply and the filtering capability is primarily in the second unit, next to the Amp Boards. Each power supply will have dual recification rails.

I used the guidelines on TNT-Audio to develop the Monoblocks and used the examples on DecibelDungeon for inspiration on Design. Does anyone have experience using the Hypex amps in this manner?

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #1 on:** 8 Dec 2005, 06:34 pm »

I don't think your going to find anyone who has built something exactly like that.

You don't need the heatsink. A piece of aluminum for mounting them to the enclosure might be nice.

I'd concentrate on good layout and grounding as first requirements. I'd keep the power supply close to the modules.... use a seperate metal shield inside the primary enclosure if you wish to shield the modules from the power supply. Twist speaker, and PS wires to minimize stray fields. Layout and grounding will be more imporant than any upgrade you can buy.

Are you going to use a single ended source or balanced? If you go single ended I'd use the guidelines posted by Hypex on building interface cables. If you have questions give me a call.

audioferret · « **Reply #2 on:** 10 Dec 2005, 08:20 am »

What are the advantages fo single ended and balanced? I am unfamiliar as to their applications in an amplifier power supply. Do you mean am I using a balanced transformer?

1. To use balanced, does the output from my preamp/electronic crossover need to be balanced?

2. What additional expenses will occur in a balanced setup?

I have noticed the D100 Monoblocks from CI audio. It looks like they have a very similar parts setup. The separate power supply may not be necessary...just good caps. Is there anything I may be missing?

- I read the review in stereophile...interesting. $700 worth of parts for a $1400 pair of amps.

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #3 on:** 10 Dec 2005, 05:02 pm »

Quote from: audioferret

What are the advantages fo single ended and balanced? I am unfamiliar as to their applications in an amplifier power supply. Do you mean am I using a balanced transformer?

No.... we are talking about the signal input. Same concept as used on the power line though. You have a negative and positive with a ground reference in the middle. The UCDs inputs have a truly balanced input but can be used with a single ended input. Hypex covers some of this in their tech notes including their recommended method for making input connections.

Quote

1. To use balanced, does the output from my preamp/electronic crossover need to be balanced?

To get the full benefit yes. To get partial benefit from it you can build the adaptor cables as per the Hypex application notes.

Quote

2. What additional expenses will occur in a balanced setup?

None really.... the modules are already designed with balanced inputs.

Quote

I have noticed the D100 Monoblocks from CI audio. It looks like they have a very similar parts setup. The separate power supply may not be necessary...just good caps. Is there anything I may be missing?

I'm not sure exactly what Dusty does with the D100s. Out of courtesy I don't make comparisons. I'm sure Dusty has made changes to the modules. The significance of those changes is beyond my scope of knowledge.

All you need is what is in the kit. If you want to make a dual mono version you need one extra transformer and one extra power supply. You will also need to make sure you understand the Hypex documentation because I have very little in the way of additional documentation. The hole for one of the transformers are already punched in the bottom of the chassis. You will need to drill a hole for the second. You also need to drill holes to mount the modules and power supplies.

If you study the Hypex documentation you can see what needs to be done in terms of wiring them. It's fairly easy but you should have some basic comfort with a VM and hand tools. You will be dealing with line voltage, which can kill and burn down a house so you need to have a comfort level and confidence in what you are doing.

dhiebert · « **Reply #4 on:** 13 Dec 2005, 10:10 pm »

Quote from: audioferret

$700 worth of parts for a $1400 pair of amps.

It wasn't apparent whether you thought this was high or low. But I thought I would respond lest someone interpret the cost differential as price-gouging. When companies sell manufactured products, it is customary for the retail price to run between 3 to 4 times the manufacturing cost. This allows some profit after other expenses are deducted (e.g. wholesale discounts, advertising, shipping, returns, warranty repair, etc.). If you try to do it for less, you're likely to find out you aren't making money. In certain kinds of business, you can get by with smaller margins.

This implies that the product you referenced is very low-margin--and it isn't made on an assembly line in China in by unskilled workers.

It is always cheaper to make your own then to buy something already made. It's matter of weighing the factors of money, time, experience, and hassle. The fact that you are posting in a forum for DIY products means that you already know that trade-off.

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #5 on:** 13 Dec 2005, 10:34 pm »

By all means Dusty's price is reasonable. A lot of DIYers harbor unreasonable expectations about what a "reasonable" mark-up should be. Most have never run a business so they just don't have the experience of being on the other side of equation.

We are building a turntable that will be sold through dealers and sold internationally through distributors & dealers. It has to go through the several layers of mark-up that is inevitable the longer the distribution chain. You also have to realize that high end audio is not a large enough market where you get good economy of scale. In the computer industry you have itty bitty margins and you sell millions of products. In high end audio you make huge margins in comparison but only sell a couple hundred, or a couple thousand for the larger companies.

What is a reasonable mark-up is going to vary with individuals but I know a lot more people who have made big money in the computer industry than ones doing it in audio. In fact on balance I've seen MUCH more money lost by audio companies than made. That tells me that margins, on average are lower than they should be for a healthy market. Either that or you have too many players in the game. The airline industry or automotive industries are large examples. You have a lot of unprofitable companies which usually means some of them need to go out of business before the situation can stabilize.

Consumers often take this wrong. They think companies slashing each other's throats is good. It may be in a limited short-term sense but it's not long term. It hurts both consumers and the companies.

JoshK · « **Reply #6 on:** 13 Dec 2005, 10:42 pm »

Kevin's right, on all accounts. It is not a business I'd want to go into because I feel there are too many players, and a billion diy'ers giving all the secrets away. You can't compete to make money if your competitor doesn't care about (or doesn't know how to) keeping his business profitable. Its a niche business, and those who know their niche better than the rest will survive.

audioferret · « **Reply #7 on:** 14 Dec 2005, 02:04 am »

I apologize if anyone thought I was slighting CIaudio or anyone who sells this stuff. I understand how much it costs to run a buisness and effectively hand-manufacture everything. Not to mention the intellectual property involved in developing a product. I meant no offense.
What I meant was how much I appreciated the possibility of building something myself that sold commercially at over twice the cost. My wife requires a lot of convincing for each audio project. The fact that I can support the "effective value" I am generating by building it myself helps keep her calm about a new project.
The fact that Dusty's product is "only" marked up by about double indicates how competitive he is being. I am very aware that the majority of a product's price is NOT parts. As I understand, it is more like 20% parts. By that contemporary math, the product in this case should be going for 3,500. Dusty is making an incredible offer. I would never get it past my wife...but that's a different story.

Again, I am sorry if I came across in that way. I was just psyched that I could possibly build something like the D100s, that's all.

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #8 on:** 14 Dec 2005, 04:43 pm »

Hey.. no offense taken. I think you have a good perspective and I can understand the issue with the wife.