[CIAudio]

Here is a link to the new D•200 review at Positive Feedback Online

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue22/cia_d200.htm

[hmen]

Congratulations. You don't read too many reviews where critics use words like "unrivaled".

[CIAudio]

I am going to point to some aspects of this review that are irksome to me. Others may not find these things troublesome, but here they are nonetheless.

First off, Mr. Weaver compares the D200 to the VAC Phi Beta integrated amplifer and darTZeel NHB-108

Hi Grant,
I would suggest emailing him if you have questions regarding his review
(I doubt anyone here can answer them for you).

His review says "Image depth is quite accurate, no more nor less than what I've come to expect from many expensive amps like the VAC Phi Beta or the darTZeel NHB-108 model one" ... it never says anything about comparing them.

Second, I wonder about the objectivity of a review written by an acquaintance of nearly 10 years, and a customer of Channel Islands Audio who owns a VPP-1 with VAC-1 Supply phono stage, VMB-1 monoblocks, VDA-1 with VAC-1 power supply, and Monolithic Sound PS-2 with HC-1 supply, as Mr. Weaver lists in his associated equipment sidebar.

I'm not sure why this bothers you...our acquaintance is simply because we have both been in the business for many years (he's not my uncle or anything). I've also known John Atkinson, Wes Phillips, and most of the other reviewers for a decade or so.

Over the years, he has reviewed many products I've been associated with and seems to like what we do (he usually ends up purchasing his review samples as he did with D-200's). Greg is a long-time professional reviewer and many hold his opinion in high regard.

In the end, the only thing that matters is if YOU like them. My offer to send you a pair still stands, let me know if you want to try them.

-Dusty-

[CIAudio]

Although I'm not ready to give up the VAC Phi just yet, I'd welcome the opportunity to hear the D200s in my system.

Call me and we can arrange it (but we do have a small backorder situation).

If you want another opinion, talk to the man who designed your speakers...Albert Von Schweikert has D•200, Spectron Musician III, a variety of VAC gear, darTZeel, AudioNote tube mono's, and has compared them all.

-Dusty-

[CIAudio]

The best thing is not to "classify" them other than "amplifiers".
What matters is the end result, no so much how you achieve it.

Does all tube gear sound the same? ModWright=MiniMax?
Do all Class D's sound the same? Did the D•100's sound like the Nuforce?
My guess is they sounded more like your VAC tube amp  

[Charles Calkins]

The best thing is not to "classify" them other than "amplifiers".
What matters is the end result, no so much how you achieve it.

  I have to agree with Dusty 100%.

                  Cheers
                 Charlie

[theaudioanalyst]

Hello. Let me address some questions posed by someone posting here only as tvad4.

>First off, Mr. Weaver compares the D200 to the VAC Phi Beta integrated amplifer and darTZeel NHB-108.

In the strictest sense of the term “compares,” this statement would be true. However, I only “compare” one characteristic of their performance, that of their spatial recreation, not overall performance.

>Mr. Weaver owns neither of these according to his equipment list, and I know of no published review of the VAC Phi Beta, so I must conclude that Mr. Weaver has not reviewed this amplifier.

No, your are correct in your assumption that I have done no formal review of either amplifier.

>Under what circumstances has he heard these amplifiers, and how does this provide sufficient exposure to allow a comparison to the D200 monos?

I have spent roughly 4 hours in front of the VR4 SR driven by the VAC Phi Beta and closer to 6 or 7 hours in front of both the VR9s and VR11s driven by the darTZeels over the four days of CES 2005. Besides taking VERY detailed notes on what I hear, I have spoken at length with Kevin Hayes, and, with much more effort because of the language barrier, Hervé Delétraz.

I also have the benefit of having spent hours on the phone and exchanging detailed and often lengthy emails with engineers and industry members who are testing and listening to numerous different amps and speakers, as well as with product designers like Albert Von Schweikert. When I hear others with reliable and competent backgrounds arriving at similar conclusions to my own, that only serves to solidify and, in a sense, validate what I have already come to believe.

Please know that over that amount of time, while I certainly wouldn’t try to write a full review, I am more than comfortable saying that I was able to get a pretty firm handle on things sonic, especially traits as significant to me as imaging and soundstaging, as those are two “hot” buttons for me.

While I suspect some of you might say, “only 4 hours”, I suspect just as many others of you will know that, with the kind of exposure and background I have had, 4 hours means I heard something very special and had taken the time to really form an opinion.

And finally on this matter, I did NOT say that the D-200s sounded the same as the darTZeel or VAC, merely that they were as adept and accurate at recreating the spatial qualities of the music as those two amps…

>Unless someone has invested substantial time listening to equipment in the same or comparable system, then the comparison is suspect. I certainly welcome additional background info regarding Mr. Weaver's exposure to the VAC and darTZeel amplifiers. It'd be helpful in putting the D200 review in proper perspective.

I have invested over 35 years to this hobby/sport/disease. It has been a true labor of love. But, I have to wonder why you didn’t just fire off an email to me? Had Dusty not shared this link with me, these questions would still be unanswered.

>Second, I wonder about the objectivity of a review written by an acquaintance of nearly 10 years, and a customer of Channel Islands Audio who owns a VPP-1 with VAC-1 Supply phono stage, VMB-1 monoblocks, VDA-1 with VAC-1 power supply, and Monolithic Sound PS-2 with HC-1 supply, as Mr. Weaver lists in his associated equipment sidebar.

You’re kidding, right? I mean, Dusty lives in CA, I live in IN. It’s not as if we’re drinking buddies and hang together shooting pool and chasing skirt, fer goodness sake. But I do respect the hell out of the man and his work. Do I buy him a drink during CES if we get a chance to sit down together at the bar at the Alexis Park the one time a year we get any face time? Sure. Why wouldn’t I?

Let’s imagine a scenario, shall we? You’ve been in and around the High-End Audio game since the late sixties and you’ve been lucky enough to get to know most of the major players and hear virtually all the major gear that has come out over the past 35 or so years. Consistently, over the course of the past decade, every product you’ve ever auditioned that Joe Blow had a hand in bringing to market has impressed you personally. It was just that good! So good that you put your money where your mouth was bought one. And maybe not as your main component, but certainly to have as a reference for other contenders in that product catagory. I mean, why in the world would you buy stuff that you didn’t enjoy?

Wouldn’t you form a level of deserved earned respect for Joe? And if you had the opportunity to share your sincere enthusiasm for his products with other music lovers because you honestly think that the products are something special, wouldn’t you? Of course you would.

Who’s work would you rather I extol? A designer who markets a $200,000 super amp that only 10 people are likely to ever buy and enjoy, or a man who has made his life’s work trying to give remarkably beautiful and affordable music to as many people as he can?

And, doesn’t it actually bring something to the table? Knowing that I actually bought the products I so raved about is an indication that I really think highly of them, isn’t it. And after all, knowledge of someone’s achievements, in my way of thinking, brings a greater degree of clarity to their contributions in general.

>I've spoken with Dusty on several occasions, and truth be known, I'm rooting for him with the D200 monos. As I mentioned above, I consider the D100 monos to sound superior to the Nuforce Ref8 monos...and I have compared them to a VAC Phi 110/110 amplifier in my own system.

>The circumstances of this review, however, are bothersome.

I hope that this clears up any misgivings or misunderstandings you may have about my “motivation.” I have nothing at stake, except helping more people get closer to their beloved music through the hardware we necessarily have to use to recreate it at home. After all, isn’t that we all want to do?

[Tim S]

tvad4,

You should read more reviews. I can't count the number of times I've seen a reviewer say he has known the designer/producer for x years. This does not mean there is anything improper behind the review. It means that, as the reviewer has now pointed out, that both of them have been around a long time and it is damn difficult not to run into people and meet them over the years. You will also find many reviewers who consistently buy products from the same producer. Would you prefer they not buy the products they give glowing reviews to? Or should they be forbidden to enjoy the good products? Look at food critics. I have a suspicion that many of them know a lot of people who are chefs. I also suspect they eat out a lot at the restraunts they give good reviews at. Why the heck wouldn't they?

By saying you were encouraging people to "look beneath the surface" you are suggesting something shady was going on. There was no indication of that from the review and no one should read that line and get the impression there was. As I said, read more reviews and you will see there was nothing out of line with the modal review in the industry.

Tim

[Charles Calkins]

tvad4:
  I never heard the D-100's so I can't comment on them. I read a post by Dan Wright of Modwright about the D-200's and based on that and his reputation I decided to give the D-200's a shot. I too have the VR-4 GEN III HSE speakers. They sounded good hooked up to my old NAD 218 THX amps but hooked up to the D-200's they have taken on a whole new more musical sounding presentation. I also have  the latest AVA T7ECR and that is a very fine piece of audio gear too. I hope you bite the bullet and get a pair of the D-200's. I know you will be very happy with them.

                                     Cheers
                                    Charlie

[Freejazz]

Grant,

I have also been involved in this hobby/passion/sickness for just over 30 years and run an embarassingly large number of pieces of gear through my multitude of systems over the years.

I try to avoid hyperbole and even most discussions about the sound of various components, as so much of this hobby is:

1) highly personal - ears, sonic preferences, musical preferences
2) influenced by many other factors - room, component matching, power quality, family influences, finances
3) ego-driven

Due to what I had heard (and continue to hear) I was motivated and had taken the opportunity to comment on both the D-100s and the D-200s here in the past.   As previously stated, I am a big fan of both of Dusty's amps and find them to be exceptional on both an absolute level and as  extraordinary values.

To qualify, my sonic tastes go toward a very natural portrayal - my musical preference is toward unamplified music in a somewhat intimate space - this being true for both vocals and instrumental music.  If I  would attempt to describe that sound, I would have to say I would err toward the slightest bit of warmth - "natural", rather than dead "neutral."

The D-100s are quite nice ... amongst the nicest sounding amps I have ever heard.  It was, however, a step up to the D-200s.  I am not sure if it was the additional power or a slightly different design topology. but it provided a more realistic sound to my system.  Slightly fuller, with better - deeper and more articulate bass ... a more natural mid-range and better perceived illusion of soundstage.

I never thought that I could be happy (long-term) with anything other than an excellent tube amp, but I must say that with the D-200s, I do not ever care to go back to tube rolling, worrying about how many hours I have on the tubes, the possibility of not having perfectly matched tubes, worrying about microphonics, etc. for my amp.

The good news is that I also have and love the ModWright SWL 9.0SE and a Consonance Droplet CD player that both use tubes in their design.  In combination with the D-200s, I have the most enjoyable system I have ever owned.

After 30+ amps, I have found my keeper.

[Rocket]

Hi Guys,

I have to say that it is disappointing how many threads turn negative like this one has.

As far as i'm aware the reviewers from Positive Feedback do this for free and don't have anything to gain from positive or negative reviews.  I bought an amplifier which was reviewed by someone on PF and although it was handy reading their impressions i did not buy it on the basis of the review.

I only use reviews as research and i let my own ears make the decision for me.  

How about we be positive and take the review at face value and not look at it from a negative perspective.

Regards

Rod

[JLM]

Greg's reviews have always resonanted with me like precious few other reviewers.

And I love Dusty's practical approaches for bring high-end sound to the masses (like me).

There's bound to be some mutual admoration between Greg and Dusty if they share similar viewpoints, at least Greg didn't hide their relationship.

[guest1632]

Here is a link to the new D•200 review at Positive Feedback Online

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue22/cia_d200.htm

Hi Dusty,

Well, that sure looks like a nice review. What kind of breakin period do you need for this amp? Is your power supply anything special? What size transformer are you using? I have heard somewhere that the Jenson 4 pole caps really light up these modules in a good supply. That's why I was curious. Is this also available as a single box, instead of a monoblock?

Ray

[JLM]

Dusty,

Are your digital amps sensitive to power abberations?  

I'm currently running a Red Wine Audio battery powered digital amp, but should really be using a bigger amp.  

My new place should have very clean power:

1.  We have our own transformer due to the 400 foot underground run to the house.

2.  The house is newly constructed with all 12 gauge wiring and minimum 20 amp circuits.

3.  I have three cryo'd hospital grade Hubbell duplex receptacles to serve the audio system.

4.  Each of those receptacles are on separate/dedicated circuits.

5.  All three share a separate ground.

6.  We live in the country with no nearby industries.

BTW my Bob Brines designed/built single driver speakers use 8 inch Fostex F200A drivers and can do 30 - 20,000 Hz in room.  They're only rated to handle 27 watts continuous and 80 watts peak.  They aren't the typical high efficiency/shouty midrange sort of extended range driver, but are Fostex's most expensive driver with Alnico magnets.

Thanks

[JoshK]

Interesting to me was the comparison done at the bottom to the Spectron Musician II.  I owned the Spectron for about 2.5 years and recently built a Hypex based amp (same module as the D200, although mods may vary).  I would generally agree with his comments and would have described the differences between the Spectron and the Hypex similarly.  

The D200 looks to be a great value, especially for those unwilling to embark on a DIY project.  Of course, I think Dusty does some of his own magic to the modules themselves.

[CIAudio]

Are your digital amps sensitive to power abberations?

The D series are not too sensitive to power, but like all audio components...they do benefit from clean power. However, I don't recommend using conditioners with them (or most other amplifiers).

BTW my Bob Brines designed/built single driver speakers use 8 inch Fostex F200A drivers and can do 30 - 20,000 Hz in room. They're only rated to handle 27 watts continuous and 80 watts peak. They aren't the typical high efficiency/shouty midrange sort of extended range driver, but are Fostex's most expensive driver with Alnico magnets.

Sounds like D-100's would be plenty for them

-Dusty-

[dhiebert]

However, I don't recommend using conditioners with them (or most other amplifiers).

Can you explain why? You hadn't mentioned this when I recently mentioned using CI Audio products with the APC H15 power conditioner.

[CIAudio]

Can you explain why? You hadn't mentioned this when I recently mentioned using CI Audio products with the APC H15 power conditioner.

That wasn't your question...your question was about safety requirements/approvals.

Some conditioners are current limiting, so I usually don't use them on amplifiers. Also some types restore the peaks of the AC waveform, which can cause mechanical hum from transformers. I didn't say you can't do it, but I prefer to connect them directly to the wall AC, and use conditioners for the low-level components.

[ohlins]

i am running my D-100s through a Shunyata Hydra 6 and i would say the results are wonderful. not even a hint of power limitation.

[siowyn]

h!
I like this thread as it illustrated something that I also have some personal feelings about.
I have not heard C200 and so my comments have nothing to do with the product.
My observation is that often reviewers have a difficult time providing evidence of neutrality.
I am a doctor and even in the highly regulated world of medical literature and journals, bias do exist.
a lot of reviews  i have read is always gushing with words like this is the best thing at any price, unrivaled etc and I find it really hard to garner real objective data from all that . If one has a personal relationship with the manufacturer, or if the manufacturer is a big advertiser in the magazine, I also take that into account when I judge the validity/objectivity  of the review. It is not unfair to expect people to have certain "misgivings" in these situations, but that of coure dooesn't invalidate the review. I think the reader was not wrong to point out his misgivings.
is it fair to subject the review to such strict "ethics"? well, that is very subjective. But I think providing a healthy counter point or some impetus to critically evaluate what we read also raises the bar for everyone in the reviewing business. Afterall, a lot of people spend money based on the reviews that they read, so there is some obligation towards accuracy and a responsibility to provide some evidence of that.
I do not say that the review here was off. i am sure the C200 is splendid. I just think its great to engage in dialogue, which is what is evident here.
i enjoyed this forum tremendously.
BTW, i run a pair of Odyssey mono extreme with the modwright SWL9.0.
Cheers!
Nam
Singapore[/b]