[randog]

edited for illegal content!

[ctviggen]

It's illegal.

[randog]

edited for illegal content!

[Dan Driscoll]

Is that true? I thought it is illegal to sell music, not trade or copy. I'm not talking mass distribution like Napster, just one on one.

Seems to me that if sharing music is illegal then the whole iPod thing is one big illegal business.

It seems you are wrong.

Making a copy of or from a  that you purchased, is legal under the "Fair Use" doctrine, as determined by the US Federal Court. Trading, selling or giving a copy to someone who has not purchased the original CD/cassette/LP/DVD, etc., is illegal.

The reason for this is that every copy you trade, sell or give away is a royalty payment that the record company (and artist) will never receive. There are various arguments for and against this, but that is the current state of US copyright law.

[randog]

edited for illegal content!

[Vinnie R.]

You just gotta love the little clear plastic protective cover that comes with the new iPods that simply states "Don't Steal Music."  

[SCUBADON]

I agree, it's illegal and wrong.

The artests need to be compensated for their work. Also, it costs to produce good quality recordings.

Somehow, I enjoy listening to my music server more knowing I have all the original Redbook CD's.

In the end, you "get what you pay for".

[randog]

I'm such a bad person.  

[randog]

scubadon, I can't help but see the irony in your avatar with this thread.

You know, it's legal to sell bongs in California for 'tobacco use only'.

[Thump553]

scubadon, I can't help but see the irony in your avatar with this thread.

You know, it's legal to sell bongs in California for 'tobacco use only'.

Tell that to Tommy Chong (of Cheech and Chong fame).  He just spent about a year in the federal pen for lending his name and persona to a firm that made bongs.  One of the main accomplishments of the John Ashcroft as Attorney General reign.

[nathanm]

Come on Randog, what happened to 'don't ask, don't tell'?

People support the artists they genuinely enjoy.  If Randog's trading was as evil as it is supposed to be the music business would not survive.  Somehow gazillions of people continue to write, record and release music year after year with no end in sight.  Illegal copying is one way to get free advertising for a product.  Your exposure to new music is likely to result in you buying more music.  Besides, Randog said flat out that he's on a 'crusade to discover new or old music'.  That sounds like a guy who plans on spending some money.

In the end, you "get what you pay for".

Normally, very true.  However you don't get what you pay for with iTunes IMHO.  An album costs maybe a buck or two less than a CD, but you don't get the liner notes, no lyrics, a shitty small cover image and you have to play them on proprietary hardware.  Allofmp3 has the right idea.  They're selling the same crappy, intangible product as iTunes, but at a much cheaper price.  It's the Wal-Mart of music stores; chintzy products at low prices. Well, and you have to carry each product out to your car one at a time.

[Brad]

Plus iTunes are compressed files....

I have really enjoyed Internet radio on the Squeezebox for discovering new bands and music.  I have found several bands that I later purchased CD's (and vinyl in one case) from.  

[randog]

OK, I retracted my illegal posts. I hope y'all are happy.  

Now, scubadon, I was ready to rip you a new snorkel hole about your righteous post... but instead here's something to think about. Let's use good old Apple as an example.

Apple has sold to date 22.4 million iPods. If a conservative estimate of 10% of those customers had 'illegal' copies of songs of them, that would be over 2 million iPods... care to guess how much revenue 10% of iPod sales would generate? Also, I know that a year ago 37% of Apple's revenues were generated by the iPod. I don't know about this year, but I'll bet it's closer to 50% if not more (anyone know?).

Do you think Apple would gladly give up those sales knowing that the iPods had illegally copied music on them? Don't think too hard on that one. If they made damn sure those units didn't work and thus didn't sell, Uncle Stevie would have some asses, their stock would drop like a fiber-laced turd and they'd be putting one of those 2 filthy feet back in the grave where it's had a warm and cozy spot over the majority of the last 20 years until some single crazy-ass product bails their asses out for another few years. (I've got a right to this opinion as I worked there in for a brief spell in the 80's!   )

So instead, they give us their holier than thou shit "don't steal music" *AND* at the same time they SELL music! Do you think they do it to promote up and coming bands? Do you think they do it because they want to make sure no illegal music is out there on the streets? They would say yes. I say bullshit! They do it to make more money! It's a win-win! They make themselves look like good guys all the while making tens of millions off hardware with illegal music on them! Brilliant!

Like Nathan said... look the other way. Big business is the best at doing that.

So, my righteous friends... if you really are righteous you must STOP supporting these companies, for what they are doing is wrong! You are killing the industry and squashing the poor record labels helpless to defend themselves! Garth Brooks warned you about this 10 years ago and look at him now. He has resorted to selling warmed over box set exclusives to Wal-Mart to survive. You had a hand in that! Give up your iPods, your CD-R drives and your Tivo's. Don't be so selfish as to give yourself credit for keeping your own stinky little kitchen clean. Think of the bigger picture... the greater good. If you're going to preach righteousness, be RIGHTEOUS!

Randog

PS: I like Apple products... I really do... to a point. They are a little full of themselves and put design awards over practicality much of the time (like a shiny -scratcheseasierthanchromesoitcan'tbethereforewe'lljustcallitchinesechromeforlackofabettername- case for a bound-to-be abused product), but they keep a dull industry entertaining.

[randog]

scubadon, I can't help but see the irony in your avatar with this thread.

You know, it's legal to sell bongs in California for 'tobacco use only'.

Tell that to Tommy Chong (of Cheech and Chong fame).  He just spent about a year in the federal pen for lending his name and persona to a firm that made bongs.  One of the main accomplishments of the John Ashcroft as Attorney General reign.

That doesn't change my statement.  
I did a little googling on this.
Apparently, his mistake was selling paraphernalia over the internet and delivering to a sting operation in PA which breaks a federal paraphernalia law. He spent 9 mos in the pen. Pretty severe. Funny there's no penalty for selling bootleg music paraphernalia (i.e: iPod)?  

[SCUBADON]

OK, I retracted my illegal posts. I hope y'all are happy.  

 ...

Randog, if you live in Northern California, it also illegal to say "y'all"  That phrase is reserved for those living in Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia, and South Carolina. Its not even a legal term in North Carolina.

Just kidding!!!

I lived in Sacramento for 18 years and Bodega Bay for 1 year.  It is beautiful out there.

I did not mean to get you upset.  I was just giving my openion.  I guess you have to invest you're life savings in a product, copyright it, then have someone "rip you off" to fully understand the reasons for my post.

Also, I think you should not ask a question if you cannot stand the answer.

You have made valid points.  I use my cdr's to give away underwater photos.  The point is, these are photos I have taken so I have the right. I do not use an ipod, mp3's are not high enough quality and Apple should be ashaimed in charging so much for the downloads. TEVO is ok, we pay for the material for our own use by paying the cable company or watching the commercials, or both.

As for Garth Brooks, I don't think he is hurting for $$$. I think the Walmart deal is just a little extra retirement money.

I have purchaced over 2,000 cd's in my lifetime. I think this gives me a right to express my opinion about piracy; however, it does not give me the right to make illegal copies in the future.

[randog]

C'mon scubadon, if my tongue was planted any deeper into my cheek, it would sprout roots!  

FWIW, my collection is also completely clean, so  - p l e a s e -  no more clubbings from the redbook police!  

[SCUBADON]

Randog, I am sorry. I will get off my soap box.

For years I too have been on a "crusade to discover new or old music'. I wish there was a group close to Charleston that met to share new discoveries.

Lately, I have been making my discoveries by buying CD collections of E-Bay.  I keep the ones I like and then resale the ones I don't. I think used Redbook CD are fine to buy and sell.  Sometimes I even go to flea markets and buy CD's by artists I have never heard of. I can usually get them for $1 to $3 each, sometimes even less.

I remember buying one called guitar heros for $1.  The disk was all black and I could not read the writing on it. Turned out to be Clarence Clemons! Not a guitar on the whole CD; but, WOW! what a great CD.

In the end, it's all about the music and how it sounds on your stereo. "Let's just all be friends."  Thanks, SCUBADON

[randog]

This is off topic, but I subscribed to a magazine called Paste just for that reason. They are anti-big record labels and INTO discovering new talent. They have a sampler CD and DVD every month and the CD is worth double the subscription alone with around 22 songs... most from bands I've never heard of. My biggest problem is remembering to look up the ones I really like because I want to buy their CD's.

http://www.pastemagazine.com/

They are a little bent towards alternative... but alternative anything, not just rock. I give them 2 big thumbs up.    

Giving away music really DOES work... at least with me. That and listening to underground radio on the internet or NPR. Discovery is the best thing about music.

No offense was ever taken... I just like to have some fun now and then.