Looking for low powered amp for tweeters in BESL active sys.

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jackman

Several people asked me for some pictures of my Series 5's (fully active) system (with Behringer DCX2496 crossover/DAC/EQ) and I finally got around to taking them.  Please feel free to check out my gallery if you would like to see more.  Check out the speaker cable terminals!  

They look better in person - my photography skills are admittedly lacking - and they sound literally breathtaking.  I'll get around to doing a real review and have some people over to hear them sometime soon.  Short review, I know of no better sounding, better constructed speakers anywhere near the price Phil charges for these.  New baby has kept me busy but I'm finally getting more listening in lately.  
Cheers!

I forgot to add, the spec's and additional info are available on http://bamberglab.com

Thanks,

Jack

link to gallery: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=102









I edited for spelling and added a couple words...

lonewolfny42

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« Reply #1 on: 1 Dec 2005, 06:23 am »
They look great Jack....whats in the bottom cab ? Thanks !! :)

jackman

Looking for low powered amp for tweeters in BESL active sys.
« Reply #2 on: 1 Dec 2005, 06:43 am »
Hi,

The bottom cabinet/speaker stand houses a Peerless XLS 10" subwoofer and 12" Peerless passive radiator tuned to 17hz (improved since website data was published).  The sides of the cab are flared out and they are firmly spiked into the carpet.  I should say FIRMLY spiked because they feel as rigid as large floorstanders.  The cabinets have very well implimented internal bracing and feel very solid and inert.  An Aragon 4004 provides the power. They are full range and really don't take up much more room than monitors on stands.  I also like the two piece design because it allows for easy positioning and easy shipping versus a large floorstanding design.    

Will try to get a better picture of the back of the sub cabinet but I was pressed for time.  Here is a picture from the website, the picture is kind've cartoonish looking but shows the drivers.  The site also has some really good technical info on the speakers.  It's also cool to be able to  hook the DCX2496 up to my laptop and set up different tonal variations.  

Soon a Red Wine Squeezebox will be added to the mix!

http://bamberglab.com/xls.shtml

Also, here is some more info on the sub/stands from the website (a bit long but I found it interesting):

Quote
Design concept
    The BESL Series 5 bass module is a product we are especially pleased about. Consisting of the Peerless 10" XLS (Xtra Long Stroke) woofer and 12" passive radiator, this drone system shows lower distortion than sealed or vented systems. If the parameters are just right (as they are with the Peerless XLS drivers), no EQ is required from the partnering amplifier in order to achieve flat response. This subwoofer measures perfectly flat down to 18Hz F3 as shown by the SPL graph. The roll off is approximately that of a 6th order system in the subsonic band.
    You may notice an absence of vents in all BESL speakers. Vents have a few negative side effects, such as midrange sound leakage, self-resonance, nonlinear operation, no cone control below tuned frequency, etc. A drone on the other hand prevents all such problems.
    One lesser known fact is that it is a good idea to combine the woofer with a drone whose cone area is larger than the woofer's. This reduces the drone excursion in the subsonic band, and thus increases max SPL while reducing distortion. In a sense, the 10" woofer "migrates" to a 12" diaphragm at the lower frequencies. A 12" XLS woofer would still be limited by the 12" drone excursion, and yet require a larger cabinet.
    By positioning the radiators low in the cabinet, the floor bounce dip is eliminated from the middle/upper bass range. In spite of low pass filtering, all subwoofer drivers can show some harmonic distortion products. To this end, we located the woofer on the rear panel, pointing away from the listener. Look at how the dispersion graph shows a very circular pattern, but with the amplitude at higher frequencies increasing slightly in front of the woofer (in the 180-degree direction). Placing the stereo subwoofer/monitor speakers a little out ahead of the front wall baseboard provides quarter-space boundary reinforcement and increased amplifier headroom. When used in stereo pairs, max SPL increases by 6dB, distortion is lowered, and there is absolutely no localization of the subwoofers.  
Construction
    The 10" woofer just barely fits on the narrow rear panel of the S5-xls subwoofer cabinet, which tapers up to match the footprint of all BESL MTM monitors. This provides a pleasing narrow and stacking monitor/subwoofer cabinet set, with only the drone visible from one side. Most other subwoofers operate standalone, and exhibit the "washing machine" effect. In other words, without being held rigidly still, the sound output is slightly compressed, making the bass sound muddy or soft. By contrast the XLS performs best when located underneath the weight of a matching BESL monitor, and the bass sounds tighter, with more definition and punch.
    The cabinet is actually quite rigid, yet lightweight. Three "X-Y-Z" internal braces insure square assembly, while bracing the cabinet and clearing the drivers.  
Performance
    We have performed some very sophisticated measurements on the XLS woofer. Under free air conditions, it showed low distortion, met the advertised Xmax, and even exhibited composed performance to Xmax + 50%!
    Maximum half-space SPL is 102dB from 165 watts. We realize this figure is not as high as some competitor’s claims. Add about 5dB for baseboard loading (~107dB), or about 10dB (~112dB) for corner loading, and a few more dB still for the room gain effect. We are confident that you will be hard pressed to find true deep bass and high sound output from a package this compact. Furthermore, the power graph shows no compression up to the rated SPL limit.     Finally, this subwoofer is even easy to drive. The impedance stays quite high all throughout the band of operation. Once again, it is a pleasant surprise that no pass band EQ is required for this particular alignment.  
Powering and filtering the XLS
    By comparison with the overall subwoofer design, the challenge then becomes one of finding appropriate power and low-pass filtering. Commensurate with the high-end pedigree of the System 5, outboard filtering via the DCX2496 DSP crossover and a high-current power amp of your own choosing are appropriate. This setup provides for high SPL, room EQ, electronic limiting, and fine control over crossover integration with the main speakers. A more financially prudent choice would be that among various plate amplifiers. This choice yields slightly more modest performance.  
    We fully expect the Series 5 bass module to be a new benchmark against which we invite any other similar-sized subwoofers to be compared.  

lonewolfny42

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« Reply #3 on: 1 Dec 2005, 06:53 am »
Thanks Jack...enjoy 'em !! :beer:
    Chris[/list:u]

jackman

Looking for low powered amp for tweeters in BESL active sys.
« Reply #4 on: 1 Dec 2005, 06:58 am »
Thanks Chris.  I only wish I could crank things up more often.  The baby is a good sleeper but I have been accused of pushing the envelope.  I appreciate the well wishes and look forward to the SB3.  Something tells me there will be a flood of CD players hitting the market in the near future.  

Cheers,


J

lonewolfny42

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« Reply #5 on: 1 Dec 2005, 07:04 am »
Quote
I only wish I could crank things up more often.
    Look like they can take it.... :rock: [/list:u]
      I'll watch for you review.Thanks.[/list:u]
        Chris[/list:u]

jackman

Looking for low powered amp for tweeters in BESL active sys.
« Reply #6 on: 3 Dec 2005, 12:53 am »
Quote from: lonewolfny42
Quote
I only wish I could crank things up more often.
    Look like they can take it.... :rock: [/list:u]
      I'll watch for you review.Thanks.[/list:u]
        Chris[/list:u]


Hey Chris, you know it! :drums:

Because the monitors are not called upon to play deep bass (it's handled by the subs), they can play to very high SPL's.  The midrange drivers look like they are barely working (versus most other 2 way monitors I have seen) even at high levels.  I was cranking things up higher than usual earlier today before my wife came home with our son.  Everything sounds great on these speakers from the reissue of Kind of Blue that I just picked up (excellent) to AC/DC.  

Aside from all of the wires, and the 6 channels of amplification needed for an active system, there is nothing I don't like about these speakers.  I'm not sure if the DCX2496 is even available at the moment.  There was a chip shortage or something.  You can't even get one on Ebay.  

Lastly, I will include this in my formal review but I learned something.  All the talk about plugging amps directly into the wall (or qualified conditioner) versus a cheap power strip is legit.  My wife plugged the amps into a power strip because we needed room for a DVR/cable box.  I didn't notice but something seemed wrong with the sound.  It sounded pretty good but something was missing.  When I plugged the amps into the wall, everything was "fixed".  

Thanks,

J

Bill Baker

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Looking for low powered amp for tweeters in BESL active sys.
« Reply #7 on: 3 Dec 2005, 01:59 am »
Very impressive jackman.  Nice to see others using Speak-On connectors. I use these wherever I can. Think we can start talking cable companies to start using these!!

 Don't worry about the baby. I played my systems all the time when mine were little and it turned out that they became acustomed to it and never bothered them. Now they need their radios on when they go to bed. Start now before it's too late. :D

jackman

Looking for low powered amp for tweeters in BESL active sys.
« Reply #8 on: 3 Dec 2005, 02:24 am »
Quote from: Response Audio
Very impressive jackman.  Nice to see others using Speak-On connectors. I use these wherever I can. Think we can start talking cable companies to start using these!!

 Don't worry about the baby. I played my systems all the time when mine were little and it turned out that they became acustomed to it and never bothered them. Now they need their radios on when they go to bed. Start now before it's too late. :D


Thanks Bill,

We play a radio in his room all the time...only problem is my wife listens to a lot of country... :?   I hope to fix that problem when he's old enough to know better.  Plus, he's pretty laid back about loud (ish) music.  My wife is another story!

It's cool that you like Speak-on connectors.  They are so convenient, I wish more people would use them.  They are also really helpful in an active system because they make it foolproof...impossible to plug the midrange speaker wire into the tweeter terminal.  

It's good to hear from you!  I've been out of pocket quite a bit lately but I'm finally able to do my listening and more posting.  I wish you the best in the new location!

J

lonewolfny42

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« Reply #9 on: 3 Dec 2005, 07:31 am »
Jack or Bill,
    Don't know much about that Speak On connection....can you say a few words about it ? Its different....thanks !![/list:u]
      Chris[/list:u]

ooheadsoo

Looking for low powered amp for tweeters in BESL active sys.
« Reply #10 on: 3 Dec 2005, 09:55 am »
I don't know much about it either, but it's a common pro-audio connector - and it's GARGANTUAN!

jackman

Looking for low powered amp for tweeters in BESL active sys.
« Reply #11 on: 4 Dec 2005, 03:04 am »
Quote from: ooheadsoo
I don't know much about it either, but it's a common pro-audio connector - and it's GARGANTUAN!


Are we talking about the same thing?  Speak-On connectors are actually very compact and give a great connection.  In these speakers they take the place of three sets of wires and look much cleaner than three sets of binding posts.  For active speakers, they are a perfect choice because you can't accidentally plug the wrong driver into the wrong xover point.  

I'm getting some Techflex put over the wires to make them tan or lighter color.  I don't care for the look of the blue wire!

JoshK

Looking for low powered amp for tweeters in BESL active sys.
« Reply #12 on: 4 Dec 2005, 03:10 am »
Yeah Speak-ons aren't that big, about the same size of a pair of binding posts.  And they have a hell of  a lot less metal, seriously convenient and sound great.  I use only speakon, powercon and xlr connectors in my DIY because they are reasonably priced and sound better than most audiophile crud.

Bill Baker

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Looking for low powered amp for tweeters in BESL active sys.
« Reply #13 on: 4 Dec 2005, 03:19 am »
That's right. Speak-on connectors have been considered improper for audio application by many audiophiles for some time. In all honesty, they offer a much better contact than many of the binding post and speaker terminations out there.

 They also allow for exceptional convienence without having to worry about your worn out banana plugs or loose spades falling out and shorting your amp.

 Below is a picture of the custom umbilical cords I am now using for the the external crossover version of the Bella/SP speakers


JoshK

Looking for low powered amp for tweeters in BESL active sys.
« Reply #14 on: 4 Dec 2005, 03:22 am »
Glad to see commercial dudes using speak-ons, word up Bill & BESL! Actually I use them on both amp side and speaker side in my projects. I have to give props to Gilbert of Blue circle who started using powercon connectors in some of his wares.   I really don't know why they aren't more readily adopted since in my opinion there are superior to most solutions, at least on a cost/perf basis.

Bill Baker

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« Reply #15 on: 4 Dec 2005, 03:35 am »
Quote
I have to give props to Gilbert of Blue circle who started using powercon connectors in some of his wares. I really don't know why they aren't more readily adopted


 I agree again. I am now running the new Speak-On power connectors in some of my prototype tube amps. I figure I can also offer to re-terminate a customer's favorite power cord with these connectors if they so desire. This will not work with some exotic cord designs but the option is there for those where they can be incorperated.

 Again, no worries about cords "falling out". I have always been anything but conventional.

lonewolfny42

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« Reply #16 on: 4 Dec 2005, 03:36 am »
Sad to say :oops: ...but I have that connection on my SP Tech Timepiece's....and I didn't know what it was for.... :oops:

JoshK

Looking for low powered amp for tweeters in BESL active sys.
« Reply #17 on: 4 Dec 2005, 03:39 am »
Quote from: Response Audio
Again, no worries about cords "falling out". I have always been anything but conventional.


:thumb:  Good for you!

Chris,

I think the SP tech speakers use the speakon for byamping, so it might be hooked up a bit different then typical binding posts, best consult your manual or Bob.  I just think I read that somewhere.

Bill Baker

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« Reply #18 on: 4 Dec 2005, 03:44 am »
Quote
I think the SP tech speakers use the speakon for byamping, so it might be hooked up a bit different then typical binding posts, best consult your manual or Bob. I just think I read that somewhere.


 Nope, it is an optional hookup. The reason for this feature on the SP speakers is because they are often used for studio monitoring and the Speak-On connectors are almost always used in these applications (in the studio). This way, a studio would not have to order a "custom" version with the Speak-On connectors. You can use these connectors in your speakers should you decide to order, built, buy a pair of cables to accomidate the ends.

lonewolfny42

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« Reply #19 on: 4 Dec 2005, 03:46 am »
Thanks for the reply's...I'll have to check into it. 8)