[Tyson]

Since no one else has posted yet, figured I would start things off with my impressions.  Ostensibly the visit was to listen to the Delucio's, but really was more of an excuse for us audio geeks to hang out for a few hours in an afternoon.  I was about 30 minutes late (as usual), and they gang had started without me (the others in attendance were Jason [Pez] and Mike [mgalusha]).  I brought over a few toys to listen to as well  Specifically, I brought the Mensa DIO and power supply (with Nitro power cords), the Scott Nixon TubeDAC (with crappy wall wart power supply), the "Beldinator" interconnects that Dan Banquer is sending around, a pair of M80 inteconnects (pulled from my "out of commision" home theater), a pair of Siemen's 12AT7 tubes to compare to Brad's Mullards in his preamp, a pair of Sony MDR-V6 (which is now the MDR-V7506) headphones, and a pair of Sennheiser HD-280 headphones.  Oh yeah, this was fun!

Let me tackle the speakers first, since they were the main attraction.  The look is very nice indeed.  They were smaller than the 626R's, but had a similar shape and overall look of the cabinet, except the maple brad had was nicer looking than even the full wrap oak that Wayne has (and WAY nicer than the half oak/half black 1970's-wood-paneled-station-wagon look of Jason's speakers, hehe).  Were they solidly built?  Oh yeah, those things were heavy.  The knuckle rap test was passed with ease.

We listened to the Delucio's in 3 basic configs - first with the sub (an REL Strata III) rolled in underneath them at 45hz or so, then with the Delucio's alone w/no sub, then with the sub rolled in at 35hz (or so).  The initial setup was less than optimal, the Delucio's seemed to be producing bass a fair bit below their rated 55hz -3db point.  So much so that they sounded quite a bit better when brad turned the sub off.  They lacked the weight and deep bass that the sub contributed, but they sounded a lot cleaner and less "heavy" in the mid-bass.  With the sub, they just sounded too thick.  When brad put the sub back in with the signifigantly lower crossover point, the speakers kept their clean and clear and defined midbass and upper bass, but gained the bottom octave that really gave the music that last bit of authority.  By the time we left his system was sounding "very" good.  It didn't quite do the "wraparound" imaging that Jason's system does, and it didn't have the level of detail as the Auricapped 626R's w/the FST tweeter, nor the dynamics of the RM40's, but it did everything very well.  They were very balanced speakers, and they did quite well in every area I listen for as important to me (tonal balance, dynamics, imaging, smoothness).  The only slight (very slight) weakness I heard was a change in sound when female vocals transitioned from primarily coming from the woofers, to primarily coming from the tweeter.  It wasn't obvious, you had to really listen for it, but it was there if you concentrated on it.  Still, it's the best blend between a ribbon tweeter and a cone mid/woofer that I've heard.

Speaking of system, brad's gear consisted of the Channel Islands DAC, the AVA Transcendance 7 preamp (same preamp I own), and the AVA FetValve 350ex (slightly less powerful version of the amp I own - the 550ex).  Hence the reason I brought my pair of Siemens 12AT7's.  He had a pair of Cryo'd Mullard cv4024's in both ava pieces.  Comparing the Mullards and the Siemens (to my suprise) came out strongly in favor of the Mullards in Brad's system.  The Siemens just seemed to push all the imaging to the front row and were pretty "in-your-face" sounding compared to the mullards, which presented a much more natural and convincing soundstage.  

On to the Beldinator's - Mike and Jason looked them over, they both commented that they were well built and used better construction and parts than many of the so-called high-end cables we've seen before.  Putting them in the system, they sound not bad at all (I was suprised, I was biased against them, I'll admit - I just didn't think they would sound all that good).  But they did sound good.  At their price, I doubt anyone would find anything that would sound better.  Then we put in the M80's, and it wasn't really a contest - the M80's are just a richer sounding, more realistic, more relaxed, but more detailed cable.  But of course the M80's are ridiculously good for their price.  In fact, in some ways I like the M80's a bit better than the "standard" Nitro Interconnects that Brad has.  The M80's don't present quite the detail or sense of slam of the regular Nitro's, but to my ears the M80's sound more balanced and more relaxed.  Of course, if Brad gets the Nitro's Cryo'd, they relax in their sound a lot, and are a better cable than the M80's, no question.

We also did quite a bit of comparison between the Scott Nixon TubeDAC and the Mensa (and some with the Channel Islands DAC).  First, we listened to the TubeDAC with it's wall wart and the Mensa with the Bolder Power Supply.  Sorry folks, this wasn't a contest, the TubeDAC got spanked, bad.  The Mensa was better in every area one would care to mention.  BUT, then we hooked up the TubeDAC with the Bolder power supply and it sounded MUCH better, the bass firmed up, there was an actual high frequency response, the soundstage expanded to respectable proportions, etc. . .  In fact, listened to on it's own for a while, it sounded damn fine.  When we hooked the Mensa back up, we all felt the TubeDAC got about 80% of the way there to the quality of the Mensa.  But I should also point out (again) that with a tubed (or in this case, hybrid) system, the Mensa may just be a better fit.  Maybe in an all-Solid State system the TubeDAC would be a better match.  All I can say is that today the Mensa was easily the preferred DAC - mainly because the dynamics were better, the bass was snappier and integrated with the rest of the sound more seamlessly, the soundstage was wider and deeper, and the musicians sounded like they tighter, more intune with each other's playing.  Then we hooked up the Channel Islands DAC - here is another very good DAC, IMO.  It had the mid and upper frequency dynamics and sound similar to the Mensa, but the slightly looser sounding bass of the TubeDAC.  Sonically, it was right in the middle of the Mensa and TubeDAC in presentation.

Last up were the headphones.  I brought them along specifically to get the others' opinions, because I had compared them already at my home.  The Sony's are a few years old (a friend loaned them to me recently), and the Sennheiser's are brand new, less than 12 hours of break in.  Plugged them in to the headphone output of the T7 preamp and the verdict mirrored my own opinions - Sony's sound boosted in the mid bass and the treble is hashy and too prominent.  The Sennheiser's sound a little boring at first compared to the Sony's because the Senn's have a flat frequency response, but are much easier to listen to and are more musical.  Of course, even the Senn 280's don't really compare to the Sennheiser HD600's that I have in my dedicated headphone rig, but the 280's are closed and sealed, while the 600's leak sound, not a good thing for late night game playing or music listening while the wife is trying to sleep.  For $75 delivered from Amazon.com, the 280's are a steal.  Oh, one other thing - the V-6's are lighter and smaller and fit the curves of your head a bit better.  The 280's are bigger and clunkier looking.  Wearing the V-6's, you look like an audio geek, but wearing the 280s makes you look like a dork.  They dwarfed Jason's little head

Anyway, I've done enough typing in one shot here, I'll turn it over for the comments from the others. . .

[Ravi]

Tyson, great recap.  Its almost like being there!  Glad you guys had fun.  I'm a big fan of the ART DIO myself, although I encourage people to get someone else like Wayne to mod it.  I never have the time of day to even start the mods, even though I have all the replacement parts here for months.

Look forward to hearing from the rest of the Denver crew as well.

[Val]

Thanks for the detailed review.

The experience you had of too much bass with the REL set at 45Hz and the better blending at 35Hz is probably not related to the Diluceo but to the subwoofer. The real rollof frequency of a REL is higher than what its control panel setting indicate. I know this by experience with two RELs (my Storm III and a friend's Strata III) and also from looking at the measurements on Martin Colloms' review of the Storm III (Hi Fi News, Feb 2000, p.77). They show the real minimum crossover (setting A1) being about 40-45Hz instead of the 22Hz indicated on the control panel, and so on. A C3 setting of 45Hz would be more like a 70Hz crossover in real life.

As Danny already said, the correct name is not "Delucio" but "Diluceo" from the Latin luce = light or bright (as in intelligent). Some "find and replace" to do

[brad b]

Actually Val, Danny and I had a little fun with names and Diluceo was found under the definition of "Clear", as the search was on for the new "Criterion Plus".

I have already commented on the Diluceo sound, which I found to be detailed, open and very balanced.  The great news for me is that I had a bunch of Audio geeks in the basement and I was explaining that I felt like I could not get my room to cooperate with a slight boom in the lower frequencies.  I had tried turning the sub off before and always felt like the Diluceo sound was very good, but slightly lean at the bottom (as they are designed to be).  I finally just flipped the setting to 32 hz for the crossover, and bang!  The base rolled up under the Diluceo's and you have one happy camper.  The price for me was supplying Jason with 3 gallons of water, a few snacks for everybody and my gear just made a nice leap in the listenability department!  Cheapest tweek yet!

I also commented under Tysons original post on the Scott Nixon Tube Dac.  I felt is was  warm with pretty good detail when coupled with the upgraded power supply and again, would love to hear it mated to pure SS.  The Mensa is a great unit and had detail, dynamics, and seemed to convey total silence, or blackness, back to immediate detail and dynamics, which makes for a very rich listening experience.  The only issue for me was that it would not sync to my Sony 7700 transport without resetting the power between discs.  Bummer!  The Channel Islands unit with power supply does a pretty good job with the upper end, detail, and soundstage, but is a little softer.  Not bad at all, and something I can live with.  Trust me, if you could not do back to back listening sessions with each unit, the differences would not be nearly as apparent.  Admittedly, my Audio memory really sucks beyond about 5 minutes, which is a great thing for my wallet!

Frank Van Alstine should pay a little attention to his original tube selection, as I believe Tyson and I have heard 3 very different versions of his gear, based on Tubes alone.  The Siemens are currently in my amp, where they have less of an impact than they did on the Preamp, but make no mistake, playing with tubes for his gear on the preamp side will result in some very real differences in what I hear.

The M80 Silver Bullet (Tyson had both Silver and Gold I believe) were extremely good cables in my system, and I could be very happy with those, but may try the Cryo for my Nitros (gotta give Wayne a call) as this would be way cheaper...

I am not a headphone guy but for those who are, don't buy the Sony Pro model (don't know number).  The Sannheiser phones were a steal, and really sounded neutral, which I believe would be ideal for evening listening.

Thanks to Jason, Tyson, and Mike for their ears, opinions, and great sense of humor.  These quick informal sessions reinforce my opinions that when these guys talk, it's because they love the hobby, and are genuinely interested in improving what we hear without going broke!  Tyson now has a pair of my Mullard Cryo'd tubes, and Mike wants to have a listen to my preamp in his system.  (He lives about 4 miles away), so it really is cool to have a strong group to help you sort through your purchase decisions, room set up, and swap a few disks, tubes, and left over gear now and then.
Brad

[mgalusha]

A few more comments, although as usual Tyson has presented a thorough report of the get together.

First let me say that Brad B. was a most gracious host and provided quite a variety of refreshments to the gang. Very nice of him to let us invade his home. It also turns out we're neighbors and he only lives a few minutes away.

My first impression of the Diluceo's was that they were very polite and non fatiguing. I had a preconceived idea (never a good thing in audio) that they would be somewhat bright and forward. I probably picked up that idea from reading some of the Criterion reviews and since the Diluceo is similar to the Criterion, I was predisposed to listen for that.

Brad invited me to play whatever I liked, so I put in Mark O'Connor's Hot Swing Trio - In Full Swing. This disc has some very fast guitar and violin playing on it and has proven to be good for highlighting a system's "PRAT". Gone was the politeness of a few minutes earlier, the speakers took on the characteristics of the music being played and were definitely cooking. The violins had a very sweet sound but not quite the bite that I thought they should have. Still, a very nice sound and presentation. The type of sound were you just want to let the music play and enjoy, which is exactly what I did until Jason arrived.

I put on the XRCD of Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms. The sound again was very nice but the bass was boomy and somewhat boxy. As mentioned in Tyson's post, this turned out to be the subwoofer integration. Brad got to looking at the sub and I believe he said the crossover was at 80hz, for watching movies. Not the 45hz he originally planned for. Even with the somewhat boomy bass, the sound was very good and non fatiguing.

Around this time Jason arrived and we played some of his discs. Giving up the sweet spot, I was struck by how good the Diluceo's sounded out of the sweet spot. Sitting to the right, the bass was actually better (room modes I'm sure) and the imaging was not completely lost. There was still a pretty fair image and it still had some depth. Very nice indeed.

Once Tyson arrived with his bag of goodies, we plugged in his MENSA DI/O and the SN TubeDac to let them warm up for a while. While they were warming up, more music and discussion.

Once the DAC's had been powered up for about a 1/2 hour or so, we started listening to the various units. Tyson put in some NIN and we ran through the DAC's. The DI/O was more dynamic and forceful than the SN with the CI falling somewhere in the middle. On this particular track, Brad and I both preferred the sound of the SN DAC, as it was more forgiving. I think this has to do with how aggressive the NIN track was and for me, the SN made it more palatable. It was suggested that with orchestra or jazz that the DI/O would be preferable.

We did another round of listening with Harry Connick, Jr. - Blue Light, Red Light. This track has a very wide dynamic range and a lot of apparent sound stage depth. On this track it was almost no contest, the DI/O was more dynamic and involving, had better rhythm and greater clarity in all areas, particularly the bass. With the DI/O it was easy to hear the bassist working up and down the scale while with the SN it was almost one note bass. Again, the CI fell somewhere in the middle. It had greater upper end extension and dynamics than the SN but was a little soft and indistinct in the bass. As far as imaging and sound staging, the DI/O provided a greater sense of depth and spaciousness. IMO, all three offer great value for the money.

We did try out the "Beldenator" and it was very good. However, when the BOLDER cable was swapped in there was a greater sense of involvement and detail while still maintaining an ease. For years I was in the wire can't possibly make a difference camp, but I cannot deny what I hear. Perhaps it's not so much that the wire has a sound but how it interacts with the components and how the components interact with each other via the connection. In any case, I preferred the sound with the M-80 cable in the system.

I think I've rambled on enough. I started this post early this morning and ended up busy all day, so my train of thought has derailed. I didn't get to hear the headphones but given my previous experiences with Sennheiser, I'm not surprised at how the group felt about them. Again, thanks to Brad for letting us invade his home.

Mike

[Tyson]

brad,
The cryo'd mullards sound incredibly good in my system, thanks for the loaner!  How are the Siemens sounding in your amp?  

mgalusha,
thanks for pointing out the off axis response for the Dilucio's - they sounded just great sitting to the left or right of the sweet spot.  I forgot to point this out, and it was a pretty impressive part of their sound!

everyone,
I don't think we got to the "real" sound of the Dilucio's until toward the end of the listening session, when the sub was more smoothly integrated, and let me tell you, they were sounding damn good.  I still prefer the 626R's cause the ribbon mids just track detail and delicacy better.  But as brad pointed out, by the time you get the full veneer wrap, upgraded caps, and the upgrade to the FST tweeter, you are well above the price of the Dilucio's.  For the size, looks, construction, and performance, I haven't heard a better speaker in the $1600 price range.

Also, to add a bit of background to the headphone story, I've been looking for a pair of sealed headphones I could live with for late night listening and gaming, but I am spoiled by the sound of my HD600's (which REQUIRE a dedicated headphone amp to sound decent).  I wanted something close to as good, but was easier to drive and didn't leak sound.  So I haunted the headfi message boards for quite a while, and the Sony's and 280's were the top candidates, with a lot of people preferring the Sonys, but still calling both sets "excellent" in their price range.  Now that I've heard both it makes me wonder what the hell they were listening to.  I brought the 2 pair to brad's to have some other's listen to make sure that my ears weren't going screwy on me, since I disagreed strongly with a lot of the "experts" on the other board.  But, brad and jason both agreed with my assessment of the 2 headphones.  Which just re-inforces to me, don't take other people's word for how gear sounds.  Listen to it in your own home if at all possible and remember the only person that has to be happy with the sound is you.

[brad b]

Tyson:  The Siemens tubes are not as rich, and may not have quite the same sound stage as the Mullards but are very easy to listen to, and much, much better than the stock tubes.  Smoother at the top end.  I did not think there would be a noticable difference because I swapped them into my amp, and put the mullards which were in the amp, back into the pre.  It is amazing how much any tube swap changes the character of the AVA electronics.  Give the mullards a couple of weeks and maybe I'll have you ordering Cryo'd Mullards as your next tube experiment!
Happy listening
Brad

[JoshK]

What about standing up?  Do the highs go away?  Namely, how was vertical dispersion?  Just curious how the ribbon tweets work in the vertical realm.

[brad b]

GR Diluceo vertical dispersion
Josh: I was sitting behind the couch on a 30" stool the whole time with no difference in the upper frequencies. I did, however, get additional bass reinforcement from the room, couch distance, etc... This particular tweeter really is a positive change from previous versions sold by several manufacturers. Standing up will take you out of the sweet spot, but still provides plenty of upper end detail. I actually have tried changing my stand angle downward, but heard no difference with an 1/8" angle change, which translates to about a 1-1/4" tweeter angle change at 11' listening distance. I keep the stands dead level and all is well. This ribbon tweeter is great on horizontal and vertical dispersion, as long as you are realistic with where you want people to be in your room. My biggest positive about the ribbon is that is conveys the detail very effortlessly without ever getting etchy. In that regard, these speakers provide me with the musicality of the Meadowlark lineup, but better detail.
Brad

[Sa-dono]

I still prefer the 626R's cause the ribbon mids just track detail and delicacy better.  But as brad pointed out, by the time you get the full veneer wrap, upgraded caps, and the upgrade to the FST tweeter, you are well above the price of the Dilucio's.  For the size, looks, construction, and performance, I haven't heard a better speaker in the $1600 price range.

You may have a point....but VMPS has a dealer network in which you can get a pretty good discount. AFIK, GR Research does not discount, except maybe to returning customers?

[OBF]

I believe a pair of fully optioned 626Rs, dealer discounted, would cost approx $2,150 in a standard cabinet.  So that's about $500 more than the finished Diluceo, and it would be a much larger spread with an optional, full wrap VMPS finish.