[jp1]

I apologize if all have been covered in various places, but heres my list of questions. Please help.

 
•         Which format is best to import in? Lossless or WAV? (FLAC vs. Itunes lossless, vs Windows Media lossless or uncompressed WAV?) From what I’ve heard FLAC is best, but it’s a bit temperamental, and not supported by Itunes or WMP
•         Is EAC the only Audio grabber  / ripper you would recommend? Or is WMP 10 or Itunes sufficient?
•         What “song container” should I use? Does Windows media 10 support FLAC? I know Itunes doesn’t. If not, what should I use – or just say screw it and go with ease of use?
 •         Which external hard drive should I use? (lacie vs wdc or something crazy like this  http://www.infrant.com/products_ReadyNAS_X6.htm),  
•         Once I run out of room, can I just add 250 gig drives like popcorn? Or does it add complexity / high cost?
•         Do I stay away from a wireless Network drive to eliminate wireless issues and just use firewire / USB drive?  
•         Do I need to modify at all my dell Pentium 4 win xp box (circa 2005) to get rid of the fan noise or other random things?
•   Can I used my regular lynxsis router that I am using for my VOIP phone to connect to the squeezebox ?
 
•         Once the CDs are in the drive, and I have the Squeezebox do I need a “Brick”, “DAC” or other digital converter / transporter to get past the USB interference / bad computer fuzz?
•         What speakers / receiver / amp / preamp  etc. should I eventually upgrade to? I’m basically running a medium level sony component system that’s anywhere from 5 to 15 years old, with pretty-much-blown-out old TDL speakers
•   Which of the Red Wine modifications do you view as critical to upgrade the SB3 to very fine audio quality? Is the battery power the “nice to have” option that’s not really required for a low end stereo that will eventually be upgraded?

thanks very much
jp

[JLM]

Allow me to help with the speaker/amp question by asking you questions:

1.  What are your audio listening priorities (detail, tone, imaging, dynamics, deep bass, ultimate volumes, etc.)?
2.  What forms of music do you listen to (rock, jazz, classical, folk, etc.)?
3.  What is your room like (size, shape, furnishings)?
4.  What loudness (sound pressure levels) do you listen at?
5.  What is your budget?

I'd pick speakers first and then look for a synergistic amp.  There are no perfect speakers or amps (ideal for any application).  Example, higher efficiency speakers are typically more dynamic and allow use of smaller/simplier amp designs, but add colorations and usually lack deep bass.  In a system your describing speakers would be the only transducer (something that changes energy from one form into another) a much tougher thing to do than what a DAC or amp has to do and so are a much bigger factor in how your overall system will sound.  Typically solid state amps have better bass control and can be more powerful but tube amps offer a warmer, more organic sound with larger/denser imaging.  In order to have the best of both worlds many audiophiles use a tube pre-amp with a solid state power amp.

IMO live unamplified music is the only gold standard to measure against, so educate yourself to what that really sounds like first.  Then obtain some high quality recordings that fully represents your favorite musical forms to use for auditioning.  

When shopping stay away from any store that has teenage sales people (they don't know enough to help) or puts all their equipment in one large room (will never sound like home).  The big box stores only offer what marketing hype dictates (bells and whistles that sell and provide high profits).  I don't believe any of the vendors here outlet via these kinds of places, most in fact only sell direct.  

Compare only 3 or 4 similar products at a sitting to avoid mental overload/confusion.  If you don't live around lots of true audio shops, look for clubs, audiofests, or shows (these opprotunities can only provide a rough guide, but they're better than nothing).  The education/shopping process is a large part of the audio hobby and could take years before making your first "serious" purchase (it did for me).

The Red Wine offerings are provide high quality sound on the low power end of the audio spectrum as battery power is the main theme (digital circuits are very touchy about needing clean power and batteries do it better/cheaper than the alternatives).  The Clari-T stuff is all conservatively rated around 6 watts per channel (wpc), which really requires efficient speakers (say 92 dB/w/m or higher) to match up well.  The extra power of the Teac allows all but the lowest efficiency speakers (below 85 dB/w/m) to be used.  This power stuff is pretty much the consensus wisdom, but there are exceptions.  For instance I (a 40 something that listens to classical/jazz at moderate levels in an average sized room) use (89 dB/w/m) speakers with a Clari-T as do a couple of others here, however I know the Teac is a better power match.

[Vinnie R.]

Hi jp1,

Welcome to Audio Circle!

I have moved your topic to "The Square Circle" here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=22974.msg204011#204011&sid=ceae585cf31528b8c69840ef153263cd

The reason is because your post contains general SB3 questions that I'm sure others may also have and benefit from, not Red Wine Audio specific questions (except for your last question, which I will answer below).  You'll most likely get more attention to your post from AC members if it is in the Square Circle, not a manufacturer's circle.

Is the battery power the “nice to have” option that’s not really required for a low end stereo that will eventually be upgraded?

If you are using a low-end stereo, you might not want to bother having your SB3 modded at all.  That money can be put towards a good pair of speakers, which is a good place to start in upgrading your system, IMO.

Regards,

[konut]

Hi jp1,

Welcome to Audio Circle!
 If you are using a low-end stereo, you might not want to bother having your SB3 modded at all.  That money can be put towards a good pair of speakers, which is a good place to start in upgrading your system, IMO.
 

 ...

Great answer Vinnie, as usual, and really points up the gist of the problem. If the purpose of all this technology is the enjoyment of music, then your best bet for long term satisfaction is to spend your money on the component(s) that will give you the most immediate and largest sonic upgrade. Vinnie has identified the component that will determine the audiblilty the rest of your upgrades will provide. Dont put the cart before the horse. The best speakers..........? Whats your budget?

[jp1]

1. What are your audio listening priorities (
i think clarity of tone, elimination of extraneous hiss & noise. not interested in max volume, rather the sense tha thte perofrmance is "in the room"

2. What forms of music do you listen to (rock, jazz, classical, folk, etc.)?
pretty much everything

3. What is your room like (size, shape, furnishings)?
moving soon, so not really applicable

4. What loudness (sound pressure levels) do you listen at?
moderate, definitely not earth shaking

5. What is your budget?
i think all in i would like to start out in the LOW single digit thousands for a complete stereo, but this will be augmented lots over time.

thanks again all
jp

[jakepunk]

You are approaching the problem from the bottom-up and a technological point of view.  Can you give us a high-level view of what you are trying to accomplish and what are your parameters?   Here are some questions:

1. Where is your listening area in relation to your PC and what are the limitations on PC placement (in listening area?  in another room?).  That will determine your networking requirements and PC quieting needs.

2. Are you dedicating a PC as a music server, or is the PC for desktop use?  Would a NAS device with slimserver running on it be more attractive?

3. Do you have an ipod?  If so, then you can import into itunes in apple lossless format, tell itunes to use CD error correction on import (I'm not sure if PC itunes has that option), and tell itunes to convert apple lossless to AAC to save room on your ipod when you sync.  That would give you a clean solution.  In any event, I see no reason to import as .wav since it takes 50% more room than lossless encoding.

4. What model of linksys router do you have?

I think the mechanics of how you encode your music are really a matter of personal preference.  I feel good using EAC ripping to FLAC because EAC gives me detailed feedback as to the problems it finds, and FLAC is open source.  Others may find using itunes as a centralized manager for the squeezebox and ipod to be the preferable solution.

[jp1]

I basically want to put my 700+ cds in storage and not lose any audio quality. that brings me to lossless, if not wav. i do not want to use aac as it is not as good quality as lossless. does the

I also would like to upgrade my stereo system, and if i can use my desktop pc for this purpose, all the better.

is itunes just as good technologically as EAC in terms of ripping lossless format? is apple lossless just as good technologically as FLAC lossless?

[jakepunk]

FLAC and apple lossless are equivalent technologically, except in one case you are beholden to a vendor and the other you are not.

I think the only people how know if itunes rips better than EAC are the authors of itunes.  Most people trust EAC because its whole purpose is bit-perfect ripping, whereas itunes has a single checkbox.

There is one little annoying feature of EAC that you need to know about.  It does not have an option to start ripping automatically if you insert a CD.  That means that you will have to click a button every time you insert a CD.  That could get really annoying when ripping a 700+ CD collection.  With itunes, you can just keep inserting CDs and not have to click anything.

[jp1]

thanks very much Jake, that helps a lot.

One further question on Itunes lossless - once i rip my own cds using itunes into itunes lossless format, am i totally stuck? Can I move these files out and convert them to another format? or am i locked in?

[JohnnyLightOn]

iTunes is probably not as good as EAC for ripping.  I'm not positive, but I'd be surprised if it had the same secure-mode process that EAC does.  EAC is designed to repeat hard-to-read segments until it gets them right.

Once ripped, however, Apple Lossless should provide the same audio quality as FLAC.  

iTunes is a great program and is very convenient.  If you're at your computer all the time, or if it's right there where you play your music, using iTunes or Windows Media Player is a nice way to go.  Their interfaces are great, and they have smart playlists.

But if your computer will be some distance from your stereo, you might as well use EAC ---> FLAC ---> Squeezebox.  Many of us are using that combo and it works great.  When you want to listen directly from your computer, Foobar2000 is a great program that you can use in place of WMP and iTunes, but it helps to be a little computer savvy.  Foobar2000 plays FLAC and also converts between and many other formats (but not AL).  FLAC may not be supported by WMP (yet), and probably won't be supported by iTunes, but it's a rock-solid lossless format that will be around for a long time.

[jp1]

any reason why SB3 does not support itunes lossless?

[JohnnyLightOn]

Sorry, if I said the SB doesn't support Apple Lossless, I'm mistaken - their webpage says it does: http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_specs.html.

I'm not too familiar, however, with integrating iTunes and the Squeezebox to know exactly how they fit together.  I just use SlimServer running on my PC to the Squeezebox, and I use iTunes with a completely separate library of MP3s for my iPod.

[jp1]

ok cool. this is what i understand from everyones' help:

itunes lossless is just as good as flac from an audio quality perspective

itunes importing might be just as good as EAC, and if you select the auto error correction its probably equivalent

itunes lossless is playable into SB3.

is there any reason why i should bother folling around with foobar, flac, EAC or any of the other formats?

and again, once i import MY cds into itunes, can i move them out  of itunes / transfer formats out of ituneslossless into other lossless formats?

thanks very much

[PhilNYC]

SB3 "supports" Apple Lossless in the way that the Slimserver software can recognize Apple Lossless files.  However, to use Apple Lossless files with SB3, you need to have the Slimserver software convert it to FLAC prior to sending it from the server to the SB3 unit (the SB3 will decode FLAC natively, but not Apple Lossless)...you do this in the "Filetype" section of the Slimserver settings page...

[jp1]

is the transcoding requirement good or bad?

sounds like from what you wrote that its not a big deal

[JLM]

Vinnie,

As an extension to JP's question:

I've got about $3k into my audio system that already includes a Clari-T, soon to be replaced with a RWA modded Teac.  (I consider this system a destiny, not a stepping stone.)  With the current deal on the SB3 through you ($378 for modded wireless) would another $300 to go the battery route make sense?

BTW A/C power here should be very clean to start with (rural setting with no nearby industries, separate utility transformer to the new house due to the 400 foot underground service, 3 cryo'd receptacles each served on a separate circuit with all of them connected to their own ground).

Perhaps the better question would be, how sensitive is the SB3 to power abberations compared to the Clari-T or Teac.