Extremes

klaus@odyssey · « **on:** 11 Nov 2005, 08:38 am »

OK, there has been some confusion about the actual specs of the Extremes. Usually, I really don't like to publish them at all, because they have absolutely nothing, zilch, nichts, nada to do with the actual sound quality. Also, figure that more than half of the published specs in audioland are absurd, lies, and bullshit.

Now, with some test mules a couple of years back we were running the extremes on industrial 1 Ohm loads at 80 - 90 % full throttle for over 3 hours. Yep, could cook some eggs on the suckers, but man, they were stabile, and the response was a total flat liner. Cool it down, and the amp behaved like new.

Now, when we did that, I was able to use some of T's test equipment, and we easily measured around 800 + Watts. However, to say that this was RMS, is nonsense. Right now, there is no way that the amps produce 300 Watts into 8 Ohms at RMS. Peak ? Easy. But on my best estimate, I'd put them right around 200 Watts, give or take some.

What does that all mean ??? Nothing, since in reality the difference between the 180, 200, and 300 Watts is meaningless in 99 % of all cases. The important issues here are:
- stabile at around 1 Ohm
- stabile with speakers that are below 80 dB efficiency
- Wattage is taking a big back seat to current, and these babies are monsters in that regard.

Ultimately, as always (here I am preaching again) it is synergy, synergy, synergy !!! There is no silver bullit, and while the amps kick ass with most speakers,, there are mis-matches as well, duh. Also, room environments is a biggie, sq. footage, long/ size/ height problems, etc. Brighness or "darkness" of rooms, bass suck-outs, etc. All extremely important, obviously.

So, we now have close to a thousand ( 1,000 !!!) Extremes out there, and about 95 % of the original owners still have the units. As a result, I also have a very large data base of customer feedbacks on their system setups, and have a good idea as to what speakers in what situations are a great match or not.

That really is the important thing, isn't it.

Late,

Klaus

bunky · « **Reply #1 on:** 11 Nov 2005, 10:38 am »

Hey Klaus,i have never talked to anyone who owned the Extreme monos who were not at a minimum very happy with thier Extremes. the 95% retention rate for these amplifiers ownership speaks volumes as to how good they really are.i recommend these amplifiers to anyone who inquires because they are all of that and then some.you never posted specs on the Extremes or even the existance of these amplifiers because your website is somewhat outdated. i have never been very interested in specifications and i trust my own ears over any specifications, in fact my hearing is quite good for a man of 43 years of age. from the micro details and the blinding speed to the dynamics of the attack and decay these amplifiers are world class in every way!my system is pure Odyssey/Symphonic Line with the exception of the Groneberg TS premium cables and if anyone is lucky enough to hear my 2 channel rig you can see thier jaw drop when it begins playing. the Synergy between all of my gear is pure magic and i have only you to thank for it Klaus. thanks....William C Waldecker III

flintstone · « **Reply #2 on:** 11 Nov 2005, 02:39 pm »

Ahhh, the watts thing....very important to some. I used to have many people question me on my old Krell Ksa-250 after walking into my room and spying the large 150lb monster on it's amp stand between my speakers.

Usually something like this, "whats that?"...thats my amp I'd answer..."WOW, how much power is that?"...250 watts a side I would answer. Hmmmm, you could see it in their face....sometimes they would even mention something along the line " my Kenwood has more watts than that!"

At first I felt I should explain...well you see, this amp has a huge 4.5kva transformer and it's output increases as needed blah, blah, blah on and on for a long speal they never even understood it seemed.

After a while I just said.....2,000 watts a side. WOW, they said!

Dave

Sonny · « **Reply #3 on:** 11 Nov 2005, 06:13 pm »

Well, I must agree with Klaus and the other Extreme Owners out there. I have mine driving a pair of Meadowlark Herons, at 89db, four drivers and transmission line bass. I listen to must Jazz and Classical including Choral music. Now as you know, the numbers again means little, its how they perform when you are listening to them. Are they warm, edgy, brittle, etc...Mine has never once clipped on even the most difficult pass of Classical or Choral music, now that's saying a bunch...

I just know that number snumbers...
I wouldn't trade my extremes for a pair of VAC tubes or Krell or Classe Monos...Or the Musical Fidelity KW500 or whatever...

I will have them for some time, as well as the Extreme Tempest!!!

Gizmo · « **Reply #4 on:** 13 Nov 2005, 06:38 pm »

What is the price for a pair of Extreme Mono's?

Also has anybody tried these for Bi-Amping? Is this even an option?

Thanks,

David

bunky · « **Reply #5 on:** 13 Nov 2005, 07:05 pm »

Quote from: Gizmo

What is the price for a pair of Extreme Mono's?

Also has anybody tried these for Bi-Amping? Is this even an option?

Thanks,

David

Hey David, welcome to the audiocircles !when i bought mine in may they were going for $2795.00 and yes Sir, there are folks who bi- amplifiy with them but with the kind of current that they are packing at 120 Amps total it almost seems like overkill to me. if you dont mind me asking what type of loudspeakers are you looking to drive? if i were you i would call Klaus and he can make recomendations based on his extensive high end audio experience and also he has a large database of loudspeaker and amplifier combinations that he can reference for you. thanks....WCW III

Gizmo · « **Reply #6 on:** 13 Nov 2005, 08:15 pm »

WCWIII,

Thanks for the quick reply. I have a pair of Energy Veritas 2.4i's. I agree that Bi-Amping is probably not necessary with that much current. I was just curious, from what I can tell, there is only one input on the back of the amps, so I guess you would have to use a Y splitter from the Pre-Pro to achieve this. Probably better off just using one Mono per speaker than degrading signal path with a Y splitter and Bi- Amping.

If anyone sees something wrong with my synopsis, please let me know.

Thanks,

David

bunky · « **Reply #7 on:** 13 Nov 2005, 08:53 pm »

Quote from: Gizmo

WCWIII,

Thanks for the quick reply. I have a pair of Energy Veritas 2.4i's. I agree that Bi-Amping is probably not necessary with that much current. I was just curious, from what I can tell, there is only one input on the back of the amps, so I guess you would have to use a Y splitter from the Pre-Pro to achieve this. Probably better off just using one Mono per speaker than degrading signal path with a Y splitter and Bi- Amping.

If anyone sees something wrong with my synopsis, please let me know.

Thanks,

David

Klaus also sells the excellent Tempest preamplifier and can custom configure it to suit any of your system requirements. options include dual sets of outputs and HT bypass and the tempest extreme with an optimised phono stage if you wish. the power amplifiers also have options like dual sets of WBT binding posts if you want to biwire and they come in a variety of colors if the basic black is not doing it for you. if you are considering bi-amping Klaus can easily make it happen for you. Extreme Monos on the bottom and Khartago monos on the top would result in instant audio nirvana. the Khartago monos put out 100 Amps of total current and would make any tweeter that i am aware of sing to the heavens!call Klaus Bunge at (317) 299-5578 and he will explain all of the options to you in detail and keep in mind that he is not pushy and will never try to sell you anything that you dont want or need. Have you heard the Odyssey Loreleis for $2700 that are identicle to the $7000 Symphonic Line Legato loudspeakers ? they are quite nice if you like handmade loudspeakers with Scanspeak drivers! thanks....WCW III

pugs · « **Reply #8 on:** 13 Nov 2005, 08:54 pm »

I recently had my monos upgraded to the extremes. In my opinion, the extremes sound soooo much better than the regular monos. They make my NHT 2.5i's sound amazing which is saying a lot. Much better than they have ever sounded. I should be getting my Salk Veracity HT3's soon. I think that will be a great combination.

My advice to anyone thinking about buying the regular monos is to go for the extremes from the beginning. You'll get a much better amp and you won't have to pay for shipping to upgrade them later. I also have mine with two sets of binding posts for biwiring/biamping. One set is the stock WBT posts, and the other set is the WBT toplines. The toplines are really nice and are worth the extra money.

bunky · « **Reply #9 on:** 13 Nov 2005, 09:03 pm »

Quote from: pugs

I recently had my monos upgraded to the extremes. In my opinion, the extremes sound soooo much better than the regular monos. They make my NHT 2.5i's sound amazing which is saying a lot. Much better than they have ever sounded. I should be getting my Salk Veracity HT3's soon. I think that will be a great combination.

My advice to anyone thinking about buying the regular monos is to go for the extremes from the beginning. You'll get a much better amp and you won't have to pay for shipping to upgra ...

I agree pugs! i have owned the Khartago monos and now own the Extreme monos and both amps are Giant Killers for sure. thanks....WCW III

pugs · « **Reply #10 on:** 13 Nov 2005, 09:15 pm »

I need to add one more thing. I was a pain in the ass customer and Klaus never lost his patience with me. The last time I talked to him, he just wanted to know if I was happy with the amps. I can tell he has a lot of pride in what he does and he really wants his customers to be happy.

Gizmo · « **Reply #11 on:** 13 Nov 2005, 11:29 pm »

Thanks for all the feedback.

I would love the chance to compare my Veritas to the Loreleil's. Maybe someday. I really love the sound of the Energy's, but I know they can sound better with better amps. Maybe I could start with the Strato Mono's and then add Khatargo's or more Strato's later for the Bi-Amp option.

Does Klaus sell Turntables, or CD players?

Thanks again,

David

Marbles · « **Reply #12 on:** 13 Nov 2005, 11:32 pm »

Quote from: Gizmo

Thanks for all the feedback.

Does Klaus sell Turntables, or CD players?

Thanks again,

David

Yes, he sells both. He sells the Symphonic Line from Germany. Very HIGH END equipment.

jkm · « **Reply #13 on:** 14 Nov 2005, 01:47 am »

Quote from: Gizmo

Thanks for all the feedback.

Does Klaus sell Turntables, or CD players?

Thanks again,

David

I believe Klaus also sells VPI turntables and Van den Hull cartridges.

AlexG · « **Reply #14 on:** 15 Nov 2005, 12:37 am »

Gizmo,

Give Klaus a call... welcome to the forum.

Alex