[Bob15]

If I didn't want to change my main speakers (B&Ws) or surrounds but wanted to upgrade my center channel, do I need to just look at something like the higest end B&W center channel which is mucho bucks or can I consider something like the LRC upgraded with FST Tweeter and caps.  I've heard its better to match all three speakers  across the fronts to keep the tonal characteristics the same (if not the same manufacturer then at least the same drivers and type of drivers) and now I would be mixing completely different tweeter technology, for example.  This is 100% for watching movies.

Mistake or would the difference be too subtle to even notice?

[Marbles]

Is the long term goal to upgrade all your fronts, but do it a step at a time, or is it to just upgrade the center and be done with it?

If it is to do it a step at a time, go for it.

What you don't want to happen long term, is that you have say a motor cycle pan from left to right and have the sound go from a Harley, to a motor scooter, back to a Harley (or visa versa).  That's why you want all your front speakers to toneally match.

I'm even more sensitive to it with concert DVD's.

Side and rear surrounds are better if they match, but not nearly as important if they don't IMO.

[Bob15]

Couldn't say what long term goals are but just wanted to enhance the all important center channel for what I hope is cleaner, clearer dialogue.  Been looking and I was aware of this one from the Circle.

[lifewithmusic]

I'm quite familiar with B&W speakers and think that if you go to a VMPS LCR you'll end up selling your B&Ws for other VMPS speakers.  Good luck, and happy listening.

[John Casler]

If I didn't want to change my main speakers (B&Ws) or surrounds but wanted to upgrade my center channel, do I need to just look at something like the higest end B&W center channel which is mucho bucks or can I consider something like the LRC upgraded with FST Tweeter and caps.  I've heard its better to match all three speakers  across the fronts to keep the tonal characteristics the same (if not the same manufacturer then at least the same drivers and type of drivers) and now I would be mixing completely di ...

Hi Bob,

If we all agree that the "perfect" situation would be:

1) All three speakers "exactly" the same model
2) All three speakers the same distance from the listener, and surrounding surfaces
3) All three speakers are in the exact same orientation (vertical)
4) All three speakers are in the exact same plane

Then we have a starting point of what is "ideal".

So then we have a situation where we try and maintain those ideals and still get the most out of our system

In many respects adding almost "any" center channel strays significantly from the ideal.

1) It is generally a smaller version of the L&R
2) It is generally closer to the wall, and other surfaces (TV screen)
3) It is generally "horizontal" while the mains are vertical
4) It is generally above or below the TV meaning it fires in a different plane

In most cases, the saving grace is "matched" drivers and x-over electronics.

That said, I have had good results (acceptable) matching an LRC with many different speakers in my system, from small Rockets to TowerII (the nonplanar/non ribbon version)

So the answer lies in just how your whole system is set up in regards to all the "perfection" elements, and how bad the clairity of dialogue is with your present speaker, in relation to the other elements.

The LRC is an "excellent" center speaker and seems to blend well with other brands (my experience) and if it is better clairity you are looking for, the LRC delivers.

But as another poster mentions, do be aware that you might end up with VMPS across the frontal array  

Which is not a bad thing

[meilankev]

Bob,

John gives some good advice.  However, I disagree with his definition of the perfect situation.  A pair of stereo speakers, when properly set up, will give the best (most seamless) pan across the stage.  This is true for music or movies - well, as long as no viewer is too far off-center.  In these cases, a center channel would be necessary to keep info from the center speaker locked in place relative to the viewing screen.

However, if you seldom (or never) have a viewer sit too far off-center, and your speakers are properly set-up, the phantom center is the "perfect situation".

Kevin

[ctviggen]

I don't know about that.  I tried a test with phantom v. non-phantom and phantom was fine for movies with not a lot going on.  For movies such as Lord of the Rings, though, having a center helped tremendously.  The opening of LOTR with phantom caused my RM40s to break up.  With a center, everything was so much better.  This may, of course, be the processing by my Proceed AVP.  The only way to know is to try it.

[warnerwh]

If you went with the LRC the improvement would be alot more than subtle, let me assure you.  The problem being the LRC using drivers that are very fast and a tonal balance too different from your mains. Like one poster stated you'd end up selling those B&W's and buying Vmps speakers.  The LRC is an outstanding center channel and a bargain.  B&W speakers sound good but they need to charge much more money for the sound quality than smaller companies like Vmps.  If it makes any difference I did sell an LRC to someone that has cones and a slower midrange panel.  He called a couple of weeks later to thank me and said that "The LRC must be the best center channel in the world".  Once you hear it you'll understand why someone could think that.

You need to assess your situation.  This depends very much on you.  Home theater isn't that important to me and I have three brands of speakers in it and am totally happy.  Others get as neurotic about their home theater sound as us audiophiles.  There's a sticky list of people who have VMPS speakers who'll let you hear their system and a sticky with a dealer list.  You should go and listen, this is the best advice in your situation especially.

[LAL]

I have experimented using various center channels but keeping the front left and right and sounds all the same.  In no case did the addition of a better more dynamic center channel decrease the overall sound quality in my opinion. I think clearer dialoque and enhanced dynamic range trump other considerations when looking at a center channel speaker. I strongly recommend getting the best center you can. It is true that for many movies a phantom center can work very well. But for some there is a noticeable decrease  in dynamic quality without a center(Lord of the Rings being one example) I don't know if this is processor related or not.

LAL

[ScottMayo]

Centers don't seem to be a huge help to music of any sort. 5.1 disks don't use them much, probably out of fear that the speaker quality will be lower in the center. Synthetic 5.1, such as Neo:6, use them more heavily, but not very well. Synthesized channels just don't seem quite believable to me.

But for movies you want a good one, unless you watch movies alone. Get the best center channel you can afford, is my advice. I have the VMPS RM-30C in that role, and I've never looked back.

Folk aren't kidding about moving from B&W to VMPS, once you've heard a VMPS center. B&W Nauts was were on the top of my buy-list, until I heard VMPS. Now I deal VMPS, and there's no B&W anywhere in my house.  

[zybar]

Bob,

John gives some good advice.  However, I disagree with his definition of the perfect situation.  A pair of stereo speakers, when properly set up, will give the best (most seamless) pan across the stage.  This is true for music or movies - well, as long as no viewer is too far off-center.  In these cases, a center channel would be necessary to keep info from the center speaker locked in place relative to the viewing screen.

However, if you seldom (or never) have a viewer sit too far off-center, an ...

Great advice Kevin!

I enjoyed many, many movies using RM 40's with no center channel.  

George

[Bob15]

Thanks for all the great posts.
I'll let you all know how I made out.
I have listened to movies with andwithout a center channel on different systems (one was a Wilson audio demo) and I keep coming back to it (as did everyone else).  Dialogue fixed right on the center of the screen with ambiance coming from the L&R can't be replaced in my opinion.   Now, the thing to do is maximize that experience.

[Bob15]

If you went with the LRC the improvement would be alot more than subtle, let me assure you.  The problem being the LRC using drivers that are very fast and a tonal balance too different from your mains. Like one poster stated you'd end up selling those B&W's and buying Vmps speakers.  The LRC is an outstanding center channel and a bargain.  B&W speakers sound good but they need to charge much more money for the sound quality than smaller companies like Vmps.  If it makes any difference I did sell an LRC to  ...

Are you thinking the LRC could keep up with the HTMD (Diamond) Tweeter line of center channels or are you saying that at 1/4 of the price, there isn't 4X the performance difference?  I believe one of them (the HTM1D)is around $8k and weighes 200lbs.  
http://www.cinenow.com/us/materiel.php3/tid,4/id,23345/favicon.ico

[warnerwh]

Bob: B&W is at a huge disadvantage. They have a very high overhead.  Although I admit to liking their sound whenever I hear them anymore it shocks me as to the sound quality per dollar.  It's not even close and I suspect even people who have sold their Vmps speakers and gone to something else would agree.  

My customer that bought the LRC can afford anything he wants and went out and listened to stuff at very high end stores. I told him to not waste his money and although he wavered before purchasing the LRC, once he got it and heard it was so shocked as to call me and tell me "that the LRC must be the best center channel in the world" and thanked me.  He also stated " you can hear a pin drop".  This about 2 weeks after he got it. Him and his wife especially love to watch movies.  Just on cigars he spends 800 a month btw.  

The best thing to do if possible is go listen to both and buy what you like the best.  Just a guess here but the RM 30 center channel would probably make the B&W at 8,000 sound lacking.  And that would be 1/4 the price. The LRC is only 1100.00 or so.  Please don't take my word for it. There's a sticky in this forum with a list of owners and dealers who will let you hear their systems. If you're in the Northwest you're more than welcome to come to my home.  There's zero pressure as I don't care either way. I make my living elsewhere.  It's only part of the hobby to me.

[ScottMayo]

There's a sticky in this forum with a list of owners and dealers who will let you hear their systems. If you're in the Northwest you're more than welcome to come to my home. There's zero pressure as I don't care either way.

Ditto. If you're in New England, come hear a RM-30C flanked by the larger VMPS brothers. You want detail, clarity, and a lack of coloration? I got yours right here.

[bubba966]

I can't say that I've heard the LRC. But I have heard the HTM1 many times and on different systems. And honestly I hate the HTM1. It's terribly harsh (it's given me headaches before). I can't believe it's sold as the center to the N802's.

The LRC has to be a good bit better than the HTM1 if it's anything at all like the 626's that I heard once.

I'm of the thought that the center channel is the most important speaker in a HT used setup. And that the center speaker should be the exact same speaker that the mains are. None of this "matching" center speaker crap. If it's not the same exact speaker it's not matching.

So if you want the LRC, dump the B&W's and do LRC's across the front...

[Bob15]

Out of curiosity, how would three LRCs across the front sound and if they were all laying horizontal?  Is there wide enough dispersion to create that wall of sound?

[Brian Cheney]

I would go with a pair of 626 operated vertically plus one LRC operated horizontally.

[Bob15]

I don't follow that.  Aren't there two 6.5" drivers on the LRC and wouldn't facing them horizontally across the soundstage which gives you six 6.5" drivers sound incredible?

[Brian Cheney]

Since the LRC is horizontal it does not have the horizontal dispersion of the CD 626.  Drivers on both are the same.