Capacitor values for speaker crossover networks

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rbrb

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Capacitor values for speaker crossover networks
« on: 3 Nov 2005, 07:34 pm »
My search for replacement caps and resistors for my crossovers has lead me here, to GR Research and Sonicaps and Mills resistors.  My problem is that I only know enough to be dangerous.  I can't seem to find the exact same values in Sonicaps/Mills as the originals.  Can caps be paralleled to achieve the same value?

My tweeter network is as follows....
Caps       1x 4.7J 250V MPT
              1x 10.0J 160VAC/250VDC
Resistors 1x 20W 1.5ohm JF

Midrange...
Caps       1x PMT 12.0 uf 250V 5%
              1x PMT 47.0 uf 250V J
Resistors 2x 20W 3.3ohm JF

Woofer..
Caps       1x 150uf 100WV Bi-Polar

skrivis

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Re: Capacitor values for speaker crossover networks
« Reply #1 on: 3 Nov 2005, 07:55 pm »
Quote from: rbrb
My search for replacement caps for my crossovers has lead me here, to GR Research and Sonicaps and Mills resistors.  My problem is that I only know enough to be dangerous.  I can't seem to find the exact same values in Sonicaps/Mills as the originals.  Can caps be paralleled to achieve the same value?


When you connect them in parallel, add the capacitances together. So, yes, you can combine caps to get a larger value.

John151

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Capacitor values for speaker crossover networks
« Reply #2 on: 3 Nov 2005, 09:06 pm »
What exactly do caps do for a crossover?

ctviggen

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Capacitor values for speaker crossover networks
« Reply #3 on: 3 Nov 2005, 09:20 pm »
They help to create the filter that is used to pass (or not pass) frequency ranges.  In other words the "crossover frequency" that you hear bandied about is defined by the capacitor (and inductor/resistor).  See:

http://www.carstereo.com/help/Articles.cfm?id=1
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/speaker8.htm

You run the incoming signal through a lowpass filter, for instance, connected to the bass driver, and the lowpass filter sends the lower frequencies to the bass driver but attenuates higher frequencies.

John151

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Capacitor values for speaker crossover networks
« Reply #4 on: 3 Nov 2005, 09:45 pm »
ctviggen - Thanks, that 2nd link gave a very simple, and clear explanation. I knew that caps store electrical engergy, but I did not know about the frequency levels.  

Sorry for the hijack.

Danny Richie

Capacitor values for speaker crossover networks
« Reply #5 on: 4 Nov 2005, 03:40 am »
Here is what I would use:

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Caps 1x 4.7J 250V MPT


4.7uF Sonicaps.

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1x 10.0J 160VAC/250VDC


10uF Sonicaps.

Quote
Resistors 1x 20W 1.5ohm JF


1.5 ohm Mills resistors.

Quote
Caps 1x PMT 12.0 uf 250V 5%


12uF Sonicaps.

Quote
1x PMT 47.0 uf 250V J


Use 47uF Axon by-passed with a .1uF Gen 2 Sonicap or a 43uF Axon cap by-passed with a 3.9uF Sonicap and then by-passed with a .1uF Gen 2 Sonicap.

Quote
Resistors 2x 20W 3.3ohm JF


3.0 ohm and 3.5 ohm Mills resistors in stock. Also 3.3 ohm Links resistors in stock.

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Caps 1x 150uf 100WV Bi-Polar


Run two 62uF Axon caps, by-passed with a 24uF Sonicap, and by-passed with a .1uF Gen 2 Sonicap.

All is in stock.

rbrb

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Capacitor values for speaker crossover networks
« Reply #6 on: 4 Nov 2005, 05:24 am »
Thanks Danny.  Every driver has it's own glass epoxy circuit board.  Would there be anything to gain by eliminating the boards and have the networks hard wired instead?

Danny Richie

Capacitor values for speaker crossover networks
« Reply #7 on: 4 Nov 2005, 02:31 pm »
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Thanks Danny. Every driver has it's own glass epoxy circuit board. Would there be anything to gain by eliminating the boards and have the networks hard wired instead?


If it is of high quality then it will be of little benefit. If it is a low quality circuit board then it might be worth while.

rbrb

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Capacitor values for speaker crossover networks
« Reply #8 on: 1 Dec 2005, 11:00 pm »
I am to the point where I am ready to have my crossovers done.  I am not familier with Axon caps.  How do they compare to the Sonicaps?  Forgive my ignorance but what does by-passing caps  do?  With the suggestions that were made there will be more components in the network, should that be a concern?  Are the values that were suggested with the Axons available from Sonicap?

The cost is not really a concern, I just want the best quality which is why I've been led to Sonicap.

Danny Richie

Capacitor values for speaker crossover networks
« Reply #9 on: 1 Dec 2005, 11:34 pm »
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I am to the point where I am ready to have my crossovers done. I am not familier with Axon caps. How do they compare to the Sonicaps?


The Axon caps are a decent, inexpensive poly cap made by SCR. They are not at the performance level of a Sonicap but they have their place.

For instance Sonicaps are made as large as 30uF. Axon caps are available up to 100uF. When needing something like a 150uF value you can get there by using a large value Axon cap and then by-passing it with a smaller Sonicap to get very good results, and without the expense of bundling lots of Sonicaps. The application of using them in a shunt circuit on a large woofer that plays only low frequency information may make it difficult to discern between the combination bundle and a bundle of all Sonicaps.

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Forgive my ignorance but what does by-passing caps do?


It speeds up the discharge rate by a very noticeable factor.

Think of a cap as an energy storage device. In many applications this is what they are used for. Large cap values can store a lot of energy and the speed at which it discharges it can be slow compared to a small cap that stores less energy and charges and discharges very quickly.

So by-passing a large cap value with a really small one can make the combination take on the discharge rate of the smaller cap as it basically shorts out the larger cap and discharges it as well.

The result in sound will be faster, cleaner detail levels with a reduced smearing effect.

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With the suggestions that were made there will be more components in the network, should that be a concern?


Not due to by-pass caps or the use of bundles. This method can often be much better than a single cap alone.

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Are the values that were suggested with the Axons available from Sonicap?


No. Sonicaps are available only up to a 30uF.

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The cost is not really a concern, I just want the best quality which is why I've been led to Sonicap.


Then in addition to what I recommended above I might use a pair of 24uF Sonicaps paralleled to get a 47uF (this would be a matched set on the low side, like a pair of 23.5uF values). Since all of the midrange will be passing through these caps then it will be a good idea to use the best available in that location.

On everything else I would leave the same.

For added detail level I would also by-pass the Sonicaps in the tweeter circuit with a .1uF Gen.2 Sonicap.

rbrb

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Capacitor values for speaker crossover networks
« Reply #10 on: 1 Dec 2005, 11:39 pm »
Danny- excellent thanks!!!