[skvinson]

The thought of having 300-400 cds (uncompressed) on a music server is pretty appealing.  I was looking at the SqueezeBox (which has some modifications available), but read that it cannot play a cd directly.  A cd has to be ripped onto the harddrive first.  Two other options don't use a separate computer's harddrive, and do allow cds to be played directly.  They are the Cambridge Audio 640H Music Server and the Olive Musica.  Both could be used with their digital outs into a separate dac, and both would require (and could potentially benefit from) a preamp.  Does anyone have any experience, or know of any reviews?

I did find one review of the Musica (from AUDIO magazine).  Not very detailed.

[woodsyi]

If you already have a DAC I assume you also have a transport.  Why not stick a CD in it and play it?  I am using a SB2 with my DAC but still have a transport connected as well.  All I have to do is switch the input on the DAC to play music  from my hard drive (ripped and compressed using FLAC) via SB2 or from a CD using a transport.

[ctviggen]

I think relatively speaking putting the CD onto a hard drive and accessing it from there is way more appealing than a music server.  The work with putting your CDs on a hard drive occurs up front.  After that, you have instant access to any of your songs/albums/artists.  Even with a music server, you have to wait for the CD to be found, loaded, etc.  I think that using a home computer/server with the SB2/3 is just easier, cheaper, and better than a music server.

[brj]

I think relatively speaking putting the CD onto a hard drive and accessing it from there is way more appealing than a music server.

The products he describes (from Cambridge Audio and Olive) are hard drive based music servers.  Basically, they combine the network storage and SB into a single unit, rather than have them exist separately.

I haven't read much about the Cambridge Audio solution, but the Olive looks very nice.  The only aspect that I don't like is that their products don't yet support access to other harddrives over the network.  Thus, once the internal drives are full, you are out of luck.  Of course, this would be a trival feature to add, since they run a full blown version of Linux as the OS, but they haven't done it yet.

[woodsyi]

The products he describes (from Cambridge Audio and Olive) are hard drive based music servers.  Basically, they combine the network storage and SB into a single unit, rather than have them exist separately.

I haven't read much about the Cambridge Audio solution, but the Olive looks very nice.  The only aspect that I don't like is that their products don't yet support access to other harddrives over the network.  Thus, once the internal drives are full, you are out of luck.  Of course, this would b ...

When I looked into music servers few months ago (I am always looking for the most convinient way even if I have to pay a little more as I never have enough time) they all looked overpriced with very small storage capacity.  Increasing capacity won't be so trivial since fan noise comes into play as disks get bigger and faster.  Wireless SB was my choice because I can house a large network storage 2 floors away -- no noise and no space on the rack.  Now I have to figure out all the nitty gritty aspect of archiving music.  Let's see.  If I do 2 CD's night, I will still be going this time next year....

[brj]

When I looked into music servers few months ago (I am always looking for the most convinient way even if I have to pay a little more as I never have enough time) they all looked overpriced with very small storage capacity.  Increasing capacity won't be so trivial since fan noise comes into play as disks get bigger and faster.  Wireless SB was my choice because I can house a large network storage 2 floors away -- no noise and no space on the rack.

Don't get me wrong... I like the network music players a great deal!  I think they are extremely appealing solutions.  I've looked at them all, and may yet go that route.  What I don't like is the need to leave my big, hot, loud, power hungry desktop computer on all the time to use them, even if it is in a different room.  If I'm going to revamp a computer to use as part of my music/media system anyway, however, I might as well do it right and make it small, quiet and efficient - in which case it actually would be suitable for use in the music room itself.

Another thing to consider is how much you might want to grow the system into other areas.  Personally, I'm tempted to leave myself options to grow my media PC into a PVR, movie storage unit, occasional gaming machine to be connected to the TV, etc..  Music is my priority, so I'm not willing to compromise much to include these other options in my system, but I'm curious to see what is possible.  As a regular reader of SilentPCReview, I have to say that I'm very impressed with how quiet you can make a computer these days, even a powerful one that requires extensive cooling.

As for price, the network players will probably still be cheaper, but make sure you are comparing apples to apples.  For example, if you price the media computer with storage included, then make sure you add the price of storage and any network hardware to the cost of the network player.  I realize, of course, that many people already own storage and the network, so this affects the equation as well.  In addition, many of the media centers you can buy offer far more capability than the network players.  Of course, you may not need that capability, so paying for it would be a waste of money.

As for expanding storage later, don't forget that a media computer can mount storage over a network just as easily as a network music player.  In addition, you don't really need super-fast drives for audio playback, especially if your system has enough memory.  As a matter of fact, 5400 rpm notebook drives are extremely quiet and power efficient, and are priced relatively competatively too (now that 7200 rpm notebook drives are growing in popularity).  Put such a drive in a typical case using a suspended mount (big rubber O-rings), and you won't hear it at all.

There are a ton of options, and, like most products that enter the PC world, they change at an incredible pace.  Fun!

[skvinson]

Thanks for the info.  . . .  I don't currently have a dac.  I am leaning toward an SqueezeBox though, adding a dac, then using my dvd player as a transport for cds that haven't made it onto the hard-drive yet.

brj - thanks for the link to silentpcreview.  I will be buying a cpu to use for this.  I also want to record tv shows (i.e., football games) onto it.  My thought is to hardwire, and have it in the room.  Is there anything I can do in the ordering/configuring stage to help make it more silent?  Is there anything else (e.g., types or speed of drives) I should be considering?  (It's all I can do to keep up with audio equipment.  I don't have a clue about computers!)

Thanks!

[JoshK]

Brian has been an indispensible resource in my brief parade into the world of linux and file servers.  Unfortunately it came to a tragic end when my linux box came to a crashing hault recently.  I suspect a malicious virus is at fault when I was undoubtely naive when surfing for appropriate linux drivers.  

Do I have a point with regards to this thread?  Well, I think I did learn a few things that may help you if they are applicable to you.  I have many years invested in learning the ins and outs of windows O/Ss.  Modern Linux O/Ss are quite easy to get yourself up and running given just a little bit tech savvyness.  However, configuring them to be smart for your particular intended use if beyond a very simple slim appliance requires an investment in the learning curve.  I found I didn't have the time to devote to this at present.  I do intend to return to this front at some time in the present.  

I highly suggest that one cosidering a music server thinks ahead a bit and plans for future growth of whatever solution you consider.  Consider that HTPC's are still in their infancy but I feel that they are soon becoming a killer ap.  So ask yourself if want to expand into HT serving a little down the road when it becomes accessible enough to you.  Also consider your computer usage habits, does it make sense for you to have central file storage?

In my case, I want my music server to be a bit more of a general file server.  However, I and my wife are trying to become more energy conscience and do our part to conserve.  Running 2 or 3 computers 24/7 isn't a good way of becoming energy conscience.   But programs and OS utilities now exist that can "spin down" harddrives when they go for a period of non-use.  I HIGHLY recommend anyone considering building a music server to look into harddrive spin down when not in use.  This has benefits in heat and noise reduction in addition to energy conservation as they go hand in hand.  

So some things that I want my "music server" to do beyond just serving up music files to my SB are:
1) spin down HDs when not in use
2) serve files for my home network, so small/efficient drives can be used in other PCs.
3) have option of being a back end server for a HT front end at sometime in near future.  This can/should include:
--PVR functionality and storage
--tuning and serving for HDTV, DVB and maybe SAT or (not likely) cable.
--serve up some nice aps like weather & internet music
4) and be energy efficient.  No high CPU requirements, efficient PSU, etc.

In my case, I am wiring my home with wired ethernet for using gigabit ethernet.  At some point I can even look into using the file serve to host net booting so other PCs can be thin clients.  But this may raise CPU requirements of the file server too much defeating energy conservation.

[brj]

brj - thanks for the link to silentpcreview.  I will be buying a cpu to use for this.  I also want to record tv shows (i.e., football games) onto it.  My thought is to hardwire, and have it in the room.  Is there anything I can do in the ordering/configuring stage to help make it more silent?

That depends on where you order the machine from, and if you are ordering parts to build it yourself, or want to order a full assembled solution.

Right now, there is no "audiophile" level solution that I know of that also acts as a PVR.  The options from Olive seem very impressive in terms of building a high-quality, quiet (fanless) music server.  It runs a Linux OS on a 32 bit PowerPC processor, which should provide many possibilities for expansion to someone with the right knowledge.  That said, they are not yet as open about some of the details as I'd like, but they are considering it.  I've emailed them a few times, and they are pretty responsive, but they are a new company and seem to be proceeding a bit cautiously.

The flip side is a media server from someone like Dell or the other mass market vendors that are starting to look at "convergence devices".  These devices have a lot more room in the case to install additional hardware and generally provide more of the flexibility you want in terms of PVR, etc., but the vendors haven't put as much emphasis into keeping the hardware quiet, providing it with clean power, and other things that "audiophiles" care about.

One option I'm looking forward to investigating is the next rev of the Apple Mac Mini.  If they add a decent digital audio out and the new FrontRow software they introduced a few weeks ago, I think this very quiet machine might have some real potential.

Another option that Josh brought to my attention is to split the front end from the backend.  Use something like the Mac Mini, the Olive Musica or other small quiet computer to handle storage and software (iTunes, SlimServer, MythTV, etc.), and another piece of hardware to act as the video processing unit (MPEG encoding/decoding, etc.).  The Roku Labs Photobridge HD is one such device that has already been "hacked" to do this, although there are others.

Basically, no one company has come up with a single solution that addresses the needs of all interested parties.  If you want such a device right now, you will have to build it yourself, and it will take some level of knowledge and work.  On the plus side, this market segment is getting more and more attention, and thus we are starting to see more and more products addressing it.  Unfortunately, most of these products address music rather than video simply because music is already (mostly) available in unencumbered digital formats.  (There are exceptions.)  The real explosion of products to handle digital video in addition to digital audio won't happen until the DRM issues get resolved, and get resolved in the consumer's favor.  If the MPAA/RIAA continues to treat paying customers as criminals that need to be contained at every turn, the true convergence market will continue to develop at its current stuttering, miserly pace.  Until it does, however, most of the "media PCs" are going to be primarily aimed at music, or at best, music and non-HD, non-digitally broadcast video.

Basically, if you already have a computer with sufficient storage somewhere in your house and you just want to listen to music, a network music player is a great solution.  If you want to go further than that, it can be done, but it will probably be easier to simply add an HD Tivo to the mix rather than develop a single box solution.  Then again, where is the fun in that?

Brian has been an indispensible resource in my brief parade into the world of linux and file servers. Unfortunately it came to a tragic end when my linux box came to a crashing hault recently. I suspect a malicious virus is at fault when I was undoubtely naive when surfing for appropriate linux drivers.

   Oops!  What happened, Josh?

It sounds like you are a bit time-constrained at the moment, but if you have a few minutes and want to keep pushing a bit, shoot me a PM with some details and I can probably offer a few suggestions.

(By the way, Josh has returned the information exchange favor by supplying me with info on DIY audio and power tools - although I'm not sure he recommends mixing the two! )

[jermmd]

So some things that I want my "music server" to do beyond just serving up music files to my SB are:
1) spin down HDs when not in use
2) serve files for my home network, so small/efficient drives can be used in other PCs.
3) have option of being a back end server for a HT front end at sometime in near future. This can/should include:
--PVR functionality and storage
--tuning and serving for HDTV, DVB and maybe SAT or (not likely) cable.
--serve up some nice aps like weather & internet music
4) and be energy efficient. No high CPU requirements, efficient PSU, etc.
...

AVS forum is a great resource for info on media servers. Check out the Unraid Media Server. I think this is going to be the way to go.

[JoshK]

That unRaid is seriously killer solution! Particularly with the "starter kit".  For $469 you sure do save yourself a lot of headache and work.  If I'd had seen this when I was building my linux file server, i'd have this instead.  Maybe I'll still bite.

Even for those that want to run slim server on a mac mini or the like, this is a great solution for large storage, since it offers the benefits and safety of RAID but without so much restrictions.  

Thanks Joe!

[jermmd]

You're welcome Josh. It's a very simple storage solution for media on a home network. I'm probably going to get it around Christmas time.  I'm going to put music, photos, DVD's and basic files for backup on it. I'll be able to use all the old hard drives I have sitting around and I can hide the server in a closet out of the way.

With the Squeezebox, the latest video cards, and UNRAID, the HTPC is finally reaching it's potential.

Joe

[jakepunk]

For $469, I can get 1TB of storage with a $100 RAID card from eBay and 4 250GB drives.  And with two 350W power supplies in that beast, your electric meter is going to grin (assuming you fill up all the bays with little drives).

[jermmd]

For $469, I can get 1TB of storage with a $100 RAID card from eBay and 4 250GB drives.  And with two 350W power supplies in that beast, your electric meter is going to grin (assuming you fill up all the bays with little drives).

The unraid solution doesn't use typical raid and may offer some advantages to Raid5. It also spins down non active drives to conserve energy (and drive lifespan).

Joe