[sts9fan]

I don't see how that is relevent to my business?

Why need for the personally attacks? Must be a red state thing.

[skrivis]

"Do you consider them to be equally valid?"



I consider the Machina Dynamica explanation the overriding one.

GK (Machina Dynamica)


[/b][/i]

It doesn't hang together very well.

[ScottMayo]

Hmmm... And there I was, offering to do the test. And what did I get?
I got called a charlatan! Or anyway someone who consorts with
charlatans.

I have no idea what your relationship is with Golden Sound, and I've yet to call you a charalatan.

If it turns out you get money from Golden Sound, though, I'll call you one. But I don't know how you earn your bread, so I'll reserve judgement.

You had your chance, sir. The Chip was in your hand to try. You
passed on it. I confess I was astonished at the evident lack of
curiosity.

It was late, I had a paying customer coming in right after you, and given that I've already commented here on the IC, you can be certain that if I was going to test the IC, I would do it right.

I was happy to fiddle with that metal laced paper you had, as an informal test - I'd never seen the stuff before and had never stated an opinion on it, so I wasn't committed to a long, careful test. But the IC would have been tested for real. The test I had in mind would have involved sending you out of the room, treating OR not treating 30 disks (eg, drain OR not drain the chip - you wouldn't be told), bring you back in, hand you the chip and have you demo it with another disk - and then ask YOU if you heard a difference.

Not much of a test - even if the chip did nothing and you knew that, you'd have a 50/50 chance of giving the right answer. It also might have involved emptying your chip of charges, and when I mentioned that possibility to you, you said I should get my own. At which point I handed it back.

Lack of interest? No. A refusal to employ the same sloppy methodology that "proves" pizza tripods affect CDs.

We'll use my RM/x - even if VMPS isn't your cup of tea.

Again with the misrepresentations! What is it with this guy?
For twenty-five years I've been a VMPS owner. I have not one, not
two, but three pairs in my house right now. At the top, FF-1s.
Geez Luiz!

Actually, you copied that text from a part of the message where I was talking about a general test open to all, and the 'your' was meant to refer to a general audience, not you specifically. I'll put that mistake down to sloppy writing on my part and the fact I'm not southern - it would have been y'all's, otherwise.

Glad you like the FF-1, I hear they are wonderful. Why don't you tell us all about your system? I'm sure it's fully tricked out.

No, what was not my cup of tea (and I was not going to get
into this, but after being called a charlatan... well...) was the
thin digital sound provided by Sony and Bryston electronics, a
distressing sound that was unameliorated by any of the usual fixes.
(I attribute that to the fact that it was so bad, one would need a
whole raft of fixes, not just one at a time, to evolve the system
to listenability.) Moreover these units were sitting firmly coupled
to that bitch earth and all her shaking, as well as in the presence
of video RF equipment. Nor were the cables encouraging.

Let's see...

ModWright'd Denon 2900, not Sony. Dan's work is well regarded around AC, by the way.

Blue Jeans cables, top of their line, made from fully shielded Belden. Silver plated OFC copper, 8ga speaker wire.

There's not much I can say if you think Bryston gear is affected by the shaking of "that bitch earth" though a 1' concrete slab, and though the rubber pad supports for the shelves. It's an interesting opinion. You should tell Bryston about it.

Separating the components from each other, as you suggested we try, made no difference, so the presence of video equipment (which we turned off) doesn't seem very relevant.

Finally, everyone else who has auditioned the system, including the guy who came in right after you, raved about the sound. I have two guys coming back in December because they want to hear my new RM-30's, and hear the RM/x again.

Yes, I do believe someone who believes in tubes and vinyl wouldn't be real jazzed by the Bryston sound, but Bryston is known to be about as clean and transparent as it gets, even to a fault - if your tweaks didn't do anything on this system, I don't think I'll assume the amp was so bad it hid the improvements.

I mean, think about it...

If you make a careful, bit perfect copy of a CD, would you expect them to sound different?

When you slide a small piece of paper laced with bits of metal foil, between two fully shielded and grounded steel-boxed components, would you expect to create an audiable change?

If you attach a $1200 power cord to a preamp which, the manufacturer assures us, gets exactly what it needs from the stock power cord, what would you really expect?

We both heard, as you admit, just what I expected from all this. What you expected, I will not try to account for. I think basic, boring physics was vindicated; you think as you wish.

My guess is, the reason you didn't like the sound is that the gear I use doesn't throw in even order harmonics by the bucketful. You just don't get that loaded, warmed, rich sound - what I usually hear as unnatural timbre and distortion - from well designed SS amps. No matter how many tweaks you used, the amp was going to stay an accurate, clean, unexcitingly straightforward SS amp, measurably near-free of additional harmonics. Theres' not much point in harping on it - some people like tubes, some people like SS.

Frankly, I think your power cord and your magic paper might be of some use - with the right tube amp, with, say, with bare tubes, in a noisy environment. Maybe the paper blocks some EMI (it might do it better with a ground strap attached, though - try it) and maybe some amps really are so precariously balanced electrically, that you NEED a $1200 power cord with silver foil wire to keep them from going wild. I don't know - I've never seen any gear like that. I certainly wouldn't buy it, if I did.

[geoffkait]

"It doesn't hang together very well."


comment accepted.

[Dan Banquer]

"I have no idea what your relationship is with Golden Sound, and I've yet to call you a charalatan. "
 
You are being way too polite here Scott,  I have known Clark Johnsen for years and the reputation of Machina Dynamica speaks for itself.
These two go way past charlatan and right into scheister, and I'm still being way too polite.
                d.b.

[theborg]

Folks, this thread is on the verge of derailing. Please keep your threats and lawyers away from here. Any further comments in this direction will result in "administrative action." Thanks

[John Casler]

Folks, this thread is on the verge of derailing. Please keep your threats and lawyers away from here. Any further comments in this direction will result in "administrative action." Thanks

I too have been watching this thread and while I enjoy "spirited" exchange as well as the next person, name calling and legal references will not be tolerated.

I have already PM'd some of you and tried to make that clear.  Any more name calling or references of this type and the administration or myself will have to place this in the Wastebin.

Please act like gentlemen and carry on.

PS - Do realize that it is perfectly alright to believe or not beleive in "whatever" YOU wish, but no one has the right or privlege on/in this CIRCLE to ridicule either camp.

Ears are ears and graphs are graphs.  You can beleive in whatever one you choose, but don't go beyond these guildlines.

Thanks

[geoffkait]

General Comments:  Tough crowd.  I was wearing my asbestos suit, fortunately, so I escaped unscathed.

GK

[lonewolfny42]

you wanna buy a magic rock??

I found it for you.......

And...at an affordable price. [/list:u]

[skrivis]

"It doesn't hang together very well."


comment accepted.

You never actually state anything in the explanation. You throw out a bunch of unrelated info and the reader is left to read into it whatever (s)he wants to.

It appears that you're hinting at the IC causing quantum entanglement, which then causes quantum superpositioning in the material of the CD, which makes the CD more transparent.

The info you offer doesn't support that.

Where is there proof that quantum superpositioning can actually occur in the materials a CD is made of?

Where is there proof that quantum entanglement can cause quantum superpositioning?

Where is there proof that the IC can even cause quantum entanglement in anything, let alone under the conditions people use it in?

Let's assume that it actually works as you hint it does. How does that lead to your claims of "less congestion, more information, greater dynamic range and more air?"

I think maybe you're thinking in analog terms and we're dealing with the digital domain here. Improved read accuracy does not automatically lead to better sound. (If it does, the CD player was probably faulty to begin with.)

[skrivis]

Ears are ears and graphs are graphs. You can beleive in whatever one you choose, but don't go beyond these guildlines.

Why can't you believe in both?

So far, my ears tell me that the result of good engineering is good sound.

[geoffkait]

I suppose the real answer to your questions regarding the effects of the chip is that the "proof is in the pudding," to use an old expression.  By now, many Hundreds, if not more, people who have heard the Chip would undoubtedly agree with my assessment of its sonic characteristics.  Keep in mind the Chip is sold not only in the US but worldwide.  There are plenty of testimonials from my customers on my web site, but they are only the tip of the iceberg.  Like a lot of things, all the talk in the world won't be nearly as convincing as personally hearing it.

Now, as to whether you agree or disagree with my explanation is quite another matter.  I would like to think that my explanation is clear enough, but I certainly understand when people say it makes no sense or that they don't see how it's possible.

GK

[ScottMayo]

So, not only can't Scott hear properly, but his system is all wrong. I bet he'll be wearing ashes and sackcloth tonight...

You have no idea. Imagine it - top of the line VMPS speakers (FF1's possibly withstanding), respected, latest rev Bryston electronics, modWright SACD player, fully shielded interconnects, dedicated power lines, silvered speaker cables, and a fully treated and soundproofed, dedicated listening room. Rave reviews from listeners... well, except one.    And growing acoustic treatment business on the side.

But the guy who thinks that vibrations from the "bitch earth"'s core are making music systems sound thin and digital, has spoken, and frankly all I can think about is committing suicide by hitting myself repeatedly with a Bose speaker. Despair! Despair!

Not speaking of which, my order is in, and I'm upgrading. The RM/x and RM-30C center stay, but I'm replacing my ancient Infinity QLS-1's with RM-30's , replacing my slushy Earthquake Supernova with a VMPS Larger, and putting a pair of VMPS dipoles in back for movies.

So it's going to be a pure VMPS showroom, in December if not earlier. Come hear some "thin digital sound" that will blow you into the stratosphere.  

[ScottMayo]

Now, as to whether you agree or disagree with my explanation is quite another matter. I would like to think that my explanation is clear enough, but I certainly understand when people say it makes no sense or that they don't see how it's possible.

I must have missed something. You have a website that explains the Intelligent Chip?

[Dan Banquer]

At this point, given the introduction of Nathan's Sonic rock, I think this thread has outlived it's usefulness. Nathan has not only a better product, but a much better marketing campaign; One with a sense of humor.

My money is on Nathan!
            d.b.

[geoffkait]

Machina Dynamica's Definitive Explanation can be found at:

www.machinadynamica.com/machina64.htm

Note - The Chip explanation has been recently updated to capture the significance of the New Machine from the makers of the Intelligent Chip.

GK

[skrivis]

I suppose the real answer to your questions regarding the effects of the chip is that the "proof is in the pudding," to use an old expression.  By now, many Hundreds, if not more, people who have heard the Chip would undoubtedly agree with my assessment of its sonic characteristics.  Keep in mind the Chip is sold not only in the US but worldwide.  There are plenty of testimonials from my customers on my web site, but they are only the tip of the iceberg.  Like a lot of things, all the talk in the world won' ...

Well, if that's what it comes down to, then you should just say that and not try to spoof people with a pseudo-scientific explanation.

I did note that one of your claims, increased dynamic range, is readily testable. Do you have any evidence to back up this claim?

The others, like the "more air" claim, are totally subjective and fit in well with the "lots of people love it" argument.

I should note that lots of people, in the US as well as worldwide, are having various body parts pierced, cut, and mangled, and they all love it too. I'm sure we can get some testimonials off the web.

So when are you having your tongue pierced?

[skrivis]

Machina Dynamica's Definitive Explanation can be found at:

www.machinadynamica.com/machina64.htm

Note - The Chip explanation has been recently updated to capture the significance of the New Machine from the makers of the Intelligent Chip.

GK

There is no significance...

[skrivis]

I was giving Geoff and Clark the benefit of the doubt, and hoping they would provide a more rational explanation of how the product works.

They didn't.

I was just looking at some of the other wonderful products on the Machina Dynamica site. Magic clocks, GHz tweeters, wonderful rocks (They've already got the Soni Crock - just look at their Brilliant Pebbles), etc.

I don't know whether to despise people like this or pity them. I think I lean towards doing both.

It's truly a shame to be faced with the fact that people such as these exist in the world.

[skrivis]

Now, as to whether you agree or disagree with my explanation is quite another matter. I would like to think that my explanation is clear enough, but I certainly understand when people say it makes no sense or that they don't see how it's possible.

Perhaps a better question would be:

Does _anyone_ feel your explanations make sense, or that it seems possible?

Can I get their names? I have some new Audiophile Earrings that I'm anxious to test-market.