[miklorsmith]

Yep, I'd rather hear the truth than the standard, sugar-coated fare that sounds just like every other impression.  Nobody wants to be negative, but Vinnie's got plenty of happy customers around here (me included), and finding out that one amp doesn't work for one person won't burn the house down.

To me, "I like it" vs. "I don't" is no less valid than a flowery, 17-page reviewer report.  One's acuity at describing what they hear is not the same as immediate perception.  Even if the thought is simply "good!", the brain is taking many factors into account that distill to that seemingly simple reaction.

[lonewolfny42]

Thank you John (TheChairGuy), for posting your final comments on the Red Wine Teac. Glad I could get it to you for a listen (as well as the Omega's)...and break-in !!!

When I loan out equipement, I ask the person to write an

Honest opinion on what they hear in their system...I don't need any sugar coating...if its good say so, if it sucks, say so. I feel this helps others that might be interested in the product. I know the best place to hear something is in your own system. And, I for one, tell it like it is...its easy to remember the truth, much harder to remember lies you may have told. Just something that I follow. [/list:u]

The RW Teac is now off to audiojerry....the Omega A8's are going to -Richard-. I look forward to your comments....nothing but the truth. Enjoy...and happy listening !!!! [/list:u]
Chris[/list:u]

[TheChairGuy]

Lest anyone think otherwise, it definitely didn't suck...I believe that any manufacturer here at Audio Circle is mostly incapable of doing so.  Or, at least, doing so for long.

Battery power is intriguing - I'm just not sure a 3.4 aH SLA is large enough, with enough reserves, to power an amplification component and fulfill  my sonic wish list.  I'm really curious about buying a car battery and hooking up my modded Sonic Impact to it...how that might better the perceived  dynamics issue. Much thicker gauge jumpers are needed, to be sure, to safely handle the increased amperage.

Perhaps Vinnie can make the Clari-T and TEAC, sans internal SLA, provide a larger gauge jumpers that fit car-sized battery posts...and have us plunk down $70 for a battery at our local auto parts store when it arrives. 400+ cold cranking amps driving your amp, anyone?

It might be goddarned ugly looking at a battery in your listening room (those Interstate batteries are a nice green color, tho   ).....but may be what the doctor ordered? Not being in any way an engineer, anyone see any errors in my assumptions? Beyond the aesthetic and WAF reasons for doing so, of course

[audiojerry]

John, that was a great mini-review, I think. Honest and succinct, and done so without offending anyone.

I am looking forward to seeing how the Teac performs with my bit more mainstream audio gear: SAS 10A tubed pre, and ProAc response 2.5 2 way 8 ohm speakers with 7" midbass. I don't think slam and dynamics are as high on my list of priorities as John's. Transparency and resolution will be what I'm looking at in relation to my main amp, and hopefully my system won't adversely affect those evaluation criteria. I have no expectations about cranking it up. If it delivers in those areas, then maybe I'll look into more appropriate speakers and battery powered source components.

Thanks to John and Chris for including me in the loop.
Cheers to both you guys!  

[Vinnie R.]

The TEAC is on it's way it's next to AudioJerry in WI.

I got a good 250 hours on it (if not a little more)

It is a remarkably silent running amp...the in-between 'blackness' in songs was spooky different and excellent. It made my hairs (where they still are   ) stand up on end at times.

Sure, it will power Maggies without thermal shutdown....but was weak-kneed powering it.  It was far better overall and made a nicer portrayal of things than the 150watt AudioSource Amp3 did a year ago.  So ...

Hi Chair Guy (John),

First, thanks again to Chris for lending you the RWA Teac, and thank you for all the time you put into breaking it in, listening, and posting your findings.  

You certainly picked up on a lot of the improvements over the stock unit, and the benefits of converting this unit to SLA power.  Let me answer your questions:

Vinnie, would some of the 'snap' I felt was missing here be ameliorated by a change to a different output inductor (as was mentioned a few weeks ago)? Or, powered by a larger capacity SLA battery with more energy reserves?

Regarding changing the output inductors, I don't believe that this would give you more bass output (perhaps it would change the presentation of the midrange and top end, "snap factor", etc).  I did order a pile of those new inductors for the new board that I am working on    

Regarding using larger capacity batteries, this will not give you more power because this is not an energy reserve issue (during experimentation, I've tried that Clari-T and Teac on some BIG SLAs that are used for motorcycles).  It is most likey an issue of your speakers simply needing more power than the 30 watts to obtain the level of bass response/slam factor that you are looking for.  The batteries used in the Teac can easily provide more current than the Tripath chips can ever use at max power.  The voltage doesn't sag under full power and these SLA batteries can provide BIG current when needed.  Moving to larger cells will allow for longer play time between charges (ex. going from 3.4Ah batteries to 5Ah batteries), but you will not get any more power out of the Tripath chip in doing this.  

Alternatively, is it possible to power the 100watt Tripath chip (like Bel Canto's) with battery power? Will it require something more akin to a car battery with far more capacity and 'cranking' amps to drive it?

Technically, any amp could be powered by battery, but as the amplifier wattage becomes larger, the voltage rail(s) tend to be larger.  The higher the voltage, the more batteries you'll need, and it becomes impractical.  For example, stacking six large 12V SLAs to obtain a 72V rail will be cumbersome (BIG ol' heavy battery enclosure), as will charging them.  

Now, you may ask why do car audio amps run off of a 12V system and can output 100 or 500 or 1000 watts?  The answer is that they use DC-DC switching converters to convert the 12V to a higher voltage.  Sure, this can be done for a higher power Tripath amp, but the switching conversion generally adds switching noise (think stock Teac) and IMO defeats the purpose of battery purity/simplicity that makes it sound sooo pure and clean.  In this case, you might as well go with an AC linear power supply, which is what everyone does.

I really thought the RWA TEAC had some great attributes...and not to be overlooked is Vinnie's hard work, honesty, innovation and straight-shooting that's been a boon to Audio Circle since he arrived.

John, I want to thank you again for all your time and effort, and I totally understand that this just wasn't the best suited amp for your system and tastes.  It is ALL about synergy, listening peferences, etc.

I've had a few RWA modded Teac customers tell me that it has more bass slam than their 100 watt amp.  I've received feedback from someone who thought it was a tad too bass heavy, and now I just read your post that states you were looking for more bass.  I believe all of you, and there is no wrong opinion.  Yours was very honest and I really appreciate it, as I'm sure everyone who has read your post does.  

Again, it is ALL about synergy, listening peferences, etc.  This happens with all amplifiers.  For another example, I have a Clari-T customer who is using 86dB speakers (I forgot the model) and LOVES the combo.  He is also not into playing loud and he says the Clari-T has superb low-level detail with his speakers and never wants to go back to his 75-watt amp (I am not going to mention any names because it is not important).  For many others, the 6-watts of the Clari-T powering 86dB speakers would leave them craving much more...

Thanks to all for reading this thread and posting your feedback.  It is all very valuable and we're all learning here.

[Vinnie R.]

Battery power is intriguing - I'm just not sure a 3.4 aH SLA is large enough, with enough reserves, to power an amplification component and fulfill my sonic wish list. I'm really curious about buying a car battery and hooking up my modded Sonic Impact to it...how that might better the perceived dynamics issue. Much thicker gauge jumpers are needed, to be sure, to safely handle the increased amperage. ...

Hi John,

You can connect a car battery to the Sonic Impact, but it is still only going to output 6W into 8 ohms, 10W into 4 ohms (at 0.04% THD+N).  The TA2024 chip is only going to need so much current to play at max power.  Having any more current (car battery) will not change the power limitations of the chip.  When it reaches distortion, it reaches distortion.  To obtain more SPL, you either move to higher efficiency speakers, or you move to a more powerful amplifer.  

Regards,

[TheChairGuy]

You are one cool dude, Vincenzo - thanks for the response and succinct answers in a very non-technical manner that I could easily understand

[-Richard-]

Hi lonewolfny42/Chris,


I just want to thank you for your kindness and generosity in allowing me and Deb to
give a listen to your Omega Aperiodic 8's...this is the perfect time for me to compare
them to my B200's in Open Baffle configuration...

I also wish to thank John/TheChairGuy for his thoughtfulness and kind consideration...

Both of you have always been, and continue to be, an unending source of pleasure
to read and learn from...I am deeply grateful for your consistent sense of community
and friendship...

I also wish to thank Vinnie and his irreplacable Red Wine Audio AC forum...the more
I get to know Vinnie, the more I appreciate him...and his forum is a great place to
meet and share ideas...

I want to wish everyone a joyous ThanksGiving...good food and good cheer...

ThanksGiving means to me that there is no "other"...no separation between the new
arrival Europeans and the Native Americans who helped them survive and thrive
here...every human being on earth...is part of one family...one consciousness...
one life...and we are all linked by one mother and one father (way back when)...
so it is our responsibility to eliminate conflict in our lives...so that war ends forever...
both inwardly and outwardly...that is the best gift we could give each other for the
upcoming holidays...our love and compassion...

Warm regards -Richard-

[mcgsxr]

As the owner of a crazy pair of Visaton OB speakers, I am very interested to hear what Richard thinks of the A8's, in the aperiodic enclosure.

Great exchange about the RWA Teac too, sounds like people DO understand each other for a change!

[beatdownvictim]

As the owner of a crazy pair of Visaton OB speakers, I am very interested to hear what Richard thinks of the A8's, in the aperiodic enclosure.

Great exchange about the RWA Teac too, sounds like people DO understand each other for a change!

werd!

hmmm i will keep my eyes glued to the discussion with the A8's compared with OB b200's.  Great stuff guys!

[JLM]

TCG,

Imaging is a low priority for me because so few recordings are available that image properly.  IMO these are just some of the reasons why:

1.  Studio Conditions - performers are not set up as they would be in concert, different tracks are laid down in different studios and/or at different times, vocalists do their own backup tracks

2.  Multiple Channels - how can you expect to blend 24 channels into 2 and get natural imaging?

3.  Engineering Facilities - usually they're asked to mix with tiny monitors tight against a large window, just 3 feet away

4.  Consumer Considerations - most music is played back via headphones, car systems, or a monophonic table top unit so why should they be concerned with imaging?

5.  Live Miking - typically overhead for classical (unnatural sound), again each performer is on their own channel so when they move across the stage their image location doesn't

BTW somehow tubed equipment usually provides denser, deeper, wider, and bigger images.

[roymail]

Richard,

I, too, am looking forward to your impressions of the B200's being compared in OB and A8 enclosures.  I think this will be a very closely read thread since both implimentations seem very popular.  Obviously the A8's with have more low end by design.  Having listened to OB's for awhile, your comments should provide lots of helpful insight.  We'll be waiting and reading.  I assume you'll start a new thread???  Thanks!

Roy  "roymail"