[TheChairGuy]

.......and it cost a whole lot less than a fortune to get there, thank goodness.

About 20 years (1986) ago I was among a handful of Reps (my territory was Metro NY) to carry the original Townshend Rock with Helius arm and modded Grado cartridge.  Approximate retail for the bunch was about $1500.00.  Whan I moved on with my career, I was offered the demo for $900.00, but kindly turned it down.

It was the best vinyl set up I ever heard in my system.

So, I went back to my semi-auto, belt drive JL-A20 and stuffed the puppy with about 12 lbs of mortite rope caulk on the advice of my then-dealer.  I went well overboard with what he suggested, and the results (with a Grace F-9E) were spectacular for the $$ allocation.  I got significant amount of the Rock performance for 25% of the outlay.  I was pleased as punch for several months.

Alas, while in the dealer's shop on loan while I was travelling once week (it was there for the dealer to show prospective customers what one mad  customer did to his turntable - teehee - that was me)...he had a fire that burned his shop to the ground.

Once he got back on his feet, I bought a Thorens TD-316 and another Grace.  I never could get that TT to swing...and tried nearly everything to get groovin'.  I damped the zinc platter with mortite (little help), AQ sorbothane mat (probably made things worse), Thorens Vacuum Hold Down System (held down for about 5 minutes).  In 2001, I put a Shure v15(latest) on there...to no avail.

Meanwhile, my digital front end got so good, I assumed vinyl was just simply eclipsed. So, I sold the Thorens a few months ago.

Sitting quite lonely in my garage was about well cared for 200 records -  so I decided to get back in to vinyl in a limited way.

Having been so pleased with the (mortite-stuffed) JVC 20 years ago, I bought another one on ebay for $50.00.  This time, it was the direct drive stablemate (with the same very good, S-shaped gimbal tonearm) of my old TT - again, ready for stuffing.

Okay, I know, DD = shaker tables.  But, among the best quartz-lock, servo drives on the market are the Technics..and JVC is wholly owned Matsushita divison that  can and does borrow liberally from it's parent when needed.  

It's lousy   fidelity out of the box - as was it's belt drive brother JL-A20 new. Now, stuffed with only 5-6 lbs of Plast-i-Clay (less tacky and easier to work with than mortitie)...it's simply stupendous.  I'll try to post pics at a later date on it.  It ain't pretty, but everything is rock solid fantastic now.

I put it on 5 squishy puds I had around from LAT International (4 for $39.00 I think - quite effective at isolation over the years) and bought a Audio-Technica AT440ML cartridge.  My god, is that cartridge dynamic and fun for under $100.00!

I also bought a used Nitty Gritty for $150 on ebay, and some Bugtussel cleaning fluid (neat stuff) to clear out bacteria that is left behind by other cleaners.

All told, I'm in to it for under $400.00 (and several hours methodical set-up and Plast-i-Clay'ing ).

Today, I tweeked to a point where it is now more enjoyable to listen to then my $4500 digital front end...and I still have many tweeks left to do on it. I kid you not about Plast-i-Clay (or mortite) - it dramatically improves a cheap table.  

So, I'm absolutely tickled with music now  And, as the TT is semi-auto, it's not so painful to use as the manual Thorens.      

Here's what the TT looks like bone stock: http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/album_page.php?pic_id=536

[Scott F.]

Welcome back to the fold

Those old JVC tables sounded great. I used one back in the 70's for about 10 years. Mine was the Quadrophonic version though. After the Quad fad died I swapped out the cart for a stereo cart, I think it was an AT. Eventually the table died and I wasn't able to find a decent replacement. I still miss the sound of that old system.

Now you need to start frequenting flea markets, junk shops and second hand stores so you can start building your vinyl collection  

[TheChairGuy]

Scott,

Already bought a dozen records for $20.00 at a local shop that was going out of business after, sigh, 15 years around here.

Great deal - sorrowful occasion.

I'm on the prowl for vinyl again!  

[JoshK]

wb

It is a great hobby and a lot of fun, but unfortunately I have no time for it now and my Teres is collecting dust.  I don't intend to rid of it as I will someday set it up again to spin some vinyl.  I really do love the sound when it is all set up well.

[TheChairGuy]

Hey, if any of you have a cheap table and want to greatly improve it - go to www.avahifi.com and read Frank van Alstine's description of how to improve most any table with Plast-i-Clay (in his resources section, under 'Audio Basics').  I think it's either 1983 or 1984 where he describes the step-by-step process of applying it to your table - and where.  

Tho I knew of mortite two decades ago from my dealer, Frank's suggestion of Plast-i-Clay is much better.  I'm not sure it works better, but it's so much easier to apply and works without leaving your skin raw afterwards after application.

He's firmly (the only way Frank seems to be   ) of the opinion that direct drive tables are inferior. But, at the lower price points I see a sturdy, direct drive table as better value than belt drives.  The JVC has a good tonearm (the same, by looks, as my belt drive JVC of 20 years ago) and a very sturdy, heavy brass spindle and a precise quartz lock servo that has no evidence of 'lurching'. A little PlastiClay or constrained layer damping on the spindle and bearing well removes all audible rumble (by ear, at least).

Having owned my Thorens for 20 years made my very aware of it's performance....it made audible noise (rumble) upon rotation.  It was greatly reduced by using Tufoil (the worlds slipperiest substance for your auto engine), but it was still there (even with a heavy platter mat in place). Tufoil is a neat tweek, folks...I think it costs $14 delivered from the manufacturer.  Use the reast in your car and your engine temps will reduce by at least 10 degrees    

The JVC, by contrast, has no audible rumble.  Using a stethoscope would pick up rumble from both tables, no doubt, but by ear...the JVC is far quieter.

In case any of you are thinking the de facto choice in tables under $500 are belt drives...it ain't necessarily so. I think as you approach and exceed $1000 for a table, a great belt drive with a smooth, precise motor and a very heavy platter that greatly minimizes stylus drag is a step up; near everything in between ain't.

So, if my $50.00 direct drive beauty doesn't cut it for me...my next step will probably be $2000.00+ belt driver with tonearm. But, right now I'm deliriously happy with the JVC set-up.

[TheChairGuy]

Perhaps I'm the only one on Audio Circle that gives a crap about the overwhelmingly positive effects of Plast-i-Clay on cheap TT's and most speaker cabinets....but if I have struck a cord with anyone (or Frank van Alstine has) and you are looking for a source for Plast-i-Clay I have found none cheaper than All Art Supplies in Massachusetts.

Look for Clay, Modelling on the left menu choices and there you will see Plast-i-Clay...and all of it's various colors.  I primarily buy grey and beige. Price is only $1.51 for a lb. package.

And, until November 21, you get 11% off on your orders:

Hi

How about a pre-Christmas browse on www.allartsupplies.com.

The incentive, if you insert the coupon code 11215 you wil receive an 11% discount.

This offer blows up on November 21, 2005. And do not forget to shop our "overstock BLOWOUT"aisle for some great deals :

http://www.allartsupplies.com/article.php?sectionId=46

Happy hunting,

Bill S

Shipping cost was a reasonable $6.51 for the 2800 UPS trek here to CA. It ends up cosing about $2.17 lb...versus $3.49 (+ CA 7.75% tax = $3.76) per pack/lb in the local hobby stores.

If you live in the US, there probably is no better deal for it that I know of.

Happy tweeking to all. TCG  

[JoshK]

I ordered some to see if I like it.  Another likely use is to dampen the crystal/oscillator in your transport or dac, ala the toshiba 3950 mod thread.

[TheChairGuy]

I ordered some to see if I like it.  Another likely use is to dampen the crystal/oscillator in your transport or dac, ala the toshiba 3950 mod thread.

Josh, yeah, it's non-conductive plastic and very pliable material, so that may well be a good usage of it.

I've tried vinyl, non-vinyl and constrained layer damping for many damping 'fixes' - none seem to work any better than the Plast-i-Clay (or Mortite rope caulk...but it really does kill your skin)  

[dazzdax]

12 years ago I sold my Thorens tt. Now I'm considering to buy another tt. What do you think of the combination: Acoustic Solid tt + SME 3012 tonearm + Ortofon SPU cartridge? I've heard from some fellow audiophiles that the classic long tubed arms like the SME sound a bit "slow". Do you agree with this?

Chris

[TheChairGuy]

12 years ago I sold my Thorens tt. Now I'm considering to buy another tt. What do you think of the combination: Acoustic Solid tt + SME 3012 tonearm + Ortofon SPU cartridge? I've heard from some fellow audiophiles that the classic long tubed arms like the SME sound a bit "slow". Do you agree with this?

Chris

Hi Chris/dazzdax,

Seems to me it's all relative.  At the price and quality level you are looking at, I would gather you would be getting rather stellar vinyl playback results.

There will always be those that have opinions or ideas on many matters audio...it's juat part of the landscape.

If it's affordable for you and it appeals to you on some level - do it.  If you're stretched thin on budget buying it and you have a belief that it may sound 'slow' to you - start with something less Euro weighty  

Those component pieces certainly appear to be of high quality - each of the three manufacturers offer top notch stuff.

Perhaps someone out there that is far more knowledgeable than I on the arcane subject of tonearms and tonearm length can pitch in on this?

Helloooooooo  

[TheChairGuy]

Well, I found out (as I did with my prior Shure v15vxmr) that micro ridge stylus' are very sensitive to overhang and VTA  

Elliptical stylus', like my much loved (and now shot) Grace F-9E simply were not as fussy.  It is amazing how much information the finer stylus shapes dig up out of the grooves and how fussy they are to dial in right. Tracking force and anti-skating I didn't  note as much difference in getting it juuuuuuust right, but man, VTA and overhang are mucho importante.

I was listening to a whole lotta' unpleasant distortion until I dialed it in right, finally, today (and it's still been mostly enjoyable ).  It's been a while since setting up a TT - no wonder most of the world has abandoned this kind of playback.

It is really worth it when you do, tho. If you're budget is $100.00 and Grado's or Shure m97HE don't thrill you, you may be as pleased as I am with the Audio Technica AT-440ml.  I bought it at LPGear for $84.95. It's very dynamic - CD like in it's sound characteristics.  I assume that was intentional on the part of A-T.

[TheChairGuy]

About every day I want to announce that, clearly, vinyl is inferior to good CD playback in near every way......then I end up tweeking my rig or realizing I was errant in my setup of the new-ish (for me) TT and my thoughts are changed.

I re-did my tracking force (dumb error originally - but I had forgotten to elevate the arm with a disc on the platter) and I found out (thank criminy that VinylEngine has owners manual online, for free, to download) that my micro-ridge needs about 20% more anti-skate than indicated on the dial....the dial is set for a round stylus, not the elliptical, hyperelliptical and other more exotic shapes.  As well, I rammed another couple lbs of Plast-i-Clay into and onto the rig.  And, mess is really is now, 'cause if clayed the whole top plinth with the stuff. It's a look only a Daddy could love  

Well, the end result is stupendous.  I prefer vinyl to CD for most classical works and it's pretty close all the way around now for other types of music. I'm stunned with how good, for so little invested (about $400.00 for Nitty Gritty cleaner, cleaning fluids, about 10 lbs of PlastiClay, cartridge and table).  I had an Audioquest mat already and cleaning brushes...so I saved a little there.

I do wonder if in my small/medium 12 x 15' room, with my well chosen, but hardly brawny amplicification and speakers....perhaps vinyl sounds better in here as it's simply less dynamic than CD and better suited to the room and equipment.  I'm not sure - but I am certainly enjoying all my old music quite a bit now.