Fixed my Creek Integrated Amp

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ctviggen

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Fixed my Creek Integrated Amp
« on: 31 Oct 2005, 12:52 pm »
I have an older Creek integrated amp (4140, ver. 1).  It began blowing the AC fuse about two-three weeks ago.  I contacted Creek and they told me that the transformer was likely blown.  So, I decided to rebuild it somewhat.  I analyzed the power supply portion of the cicuit, and looked additionally for capacitors throughout the circuit.  I also found some op amps.  I definitely wanted to replace all polarized electrolytic capacitors (5).  

Here's the stuff I put in:

Power supply:

4 fast recovery diodes $5
2 10mF Nichicon Gold Tune polarized electrolytic caps $9.90
4 0.1uF Black Gate electrolytic caps (across diodes) $7.40
1 250VA, 25V output toroidal transformer $42.26

This is an increase from 2 6.8mF (millifarad) to 2 10.0 mF caps and from 160VA to 250VA transformer.  Also, the previous diodes were 3A and the new ones are 4A.  

The rest of the circuit:

2 47uf (microfarad) Nichicon Muse polarized electrolytic  $1.90 (not sure what these are for -- this part of the circuit is not diagrammed)
1 2.2uf Black Gate polarized electrolytic cap $0.75 (between + and - rails,I think)
2 Burr Brown OPA2132PA op amps $11.00
2 sockets for op amps $1.30
4 0.1uf 5% Rel Cap RT film and foil polystyrene caps $22 (put in signal path from last op amp to speaker outputs.

That's a total of $101.51.  This does not count silver-content solder, a new soldering station, solder wick, and -- probably the most expensive thing -- my time for analyze the circuit, find suitable replacement parts, desoldering, resoldering, and analyzing and reanalyzing the circuit to make sure I wouldn't blow anything.

My thoughts on the upgrade/fixing process are as follows.  Percy Audio kicks butt and has a ton of stuff of audio-quality.  A bridge rectifier, typically shown as a diamond, can look like an X with diodes at the top at the bottom and inside the lines of the X -- something that threw me for a loop for a long while.  There are no drawings I can find that tell one how to hook up a toroidal transformer with two primaries and using 115V to create two (+) and (-) rails on two secondaries.  I thought I knew how to do this (it seems obvious from the drawing, after I thought about it a while), but I wanted confirmation from a circuit.  I searched for quite a long time before I was able to find something that indicated that I was correct, and this was in text.  In other words, you can find this:

http://www.aksaonline.com/products/products_aksaasmbly.html

quite readily, but this is for 220V, not 110/115v.  The original 0.1 uF caps used for the output signal were about .25 inches wide and tall and about 1/8 inch thick.  The replacement reliable capacitors are 0.42 inches wide by 1.25 inches long!  They are massive!  It took a while to fit these in.  The new diode's legs had to be bent.  The pads for the transformer could not be used in order to fit the transformer inside the case.  The 10mF caps barely fit.  An adjustable soldering station helps this process immensely!  You can set it hot when removing solder and cooler when soldering leads for caps.  A hair dryer doesn't work for heat shrink (although I did have it on low, mistakenly thinking that low was for the fan and not the heat).  

The sound?  I am stunned.  The output is quite a bit higher for some reason (op amps?), I'd say 20-30 percent higher.  So high that I took my 8 ohm bookshelfs down to the HT and brought up my full range Linn, 4 ohm speakers (and Creek recommends against hooking this amp up to 4 ohm speakers).  I had it running for hours into the Linns with no evidence of strain or extra heat.  The overall impression for me is a much stronger, livelier amp with better bass extension.  However, that's not hearing the amp for several weeks, so this may be an invalid test, other than for the power aspect, as I know where I used to have the dial and now the dial is much lower.  Oh yeah, after I powered it up and played for about 10 minutes, I put in a Signal Cable power cord (I ordered a 15 amp connector to replace the 20 A connector on the cord so that I could use it with the amp).  

This project has me thinking of building an Aksa amp and maybe a power supply (with remote turn on/off, if possible) for my Ack Dack.  Such projects are going to have to wait, though, as insulation for the house and running network cable are my next projects.

Pictures are forthcoming.

DeadFish

Fixed my Creek Integrated Amp
« Reply #1 on: 31 Oct 2005, 01:12 pm »
Wow, Bob, quite the project!
Thanks for the details and descriptions.
Sounds like you got a nice return for your investments of cash and self.
Also sounds like you are on the 'path to madness' after you get those silly little details like insulation out of the way... :wink:

Best Regards,
DeadFish

Occam

Fixed my Creek Integrated Amp
« Reply #2 on: 31 Oct 2005, 02:01 pm »
ct - connections/colors for Avel transformers-
http://avellindberg.com/transformers/y23_range_connections.htm

general ps connections from our own DVV -
http://zero-distortion.com/start.htm
scroll down and read the 'designing your own power supply'

lots of variations to explore in Dejan's article.

Just one comment. I don't think it appropriate to use those BlackGates (or any electrolytics for that matter, polarized or not) accross the diodes in you bridge. If you're intent on bypassing the diodes (or bypassing ps caps/rails in general), you really want extremely low inductance caps to deal with any spikes. Epcos stacked polypropolene film caps might be more appropriate from Digikey -
http://www.digikey.com/
and search on 'B3262'
apply a filter to specify value and/or voltage, or simply hit 'viewpage'
click on one of the Digikey part #s, then the catalog/technical info, and you can pull the pdf.

EDIT - If you need voltages and/or values beyond what is available in stacked polypropolene, Epcos also makes stacked polyethelene caps. Simply search at Digikey for 'B3252'. Note - above certain voltages/values these are mixed stacked/wound or wound caps with higher inductance. You need to download the pdf to see which is which.
Remember the math of paralleling caps, additive capacitance, and
1/(1/La+1/Lb....) iff'n you control trace/wiring lengths

Dan Banquer

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Fixed Power Supply
« Reply #3 on: 31 Oct 2005, 03:11 pm »
I want to add a bit more to what Occam is saying about the caps across the diodes on the bridge rectifier. I have found that anywhere from 0.1 uf to .47uf across each diode appears to be sufficent. If I use 1uf caps across the diodes on the bridge rectifier I find that that this causes the transformers to "sing" , as in what appears to be a mechanical vibration. Anyone else find anything similar to that? or different?

JoshK

reinventing the wheel
« Reply #4 on: 31 Oct 2005, 04:17 pm »
I have found through building the UcD amps given that I live in a proverbial RF haven, that bypassing the diodes is absolutely necessary not optional.  This is true even with IXYS bridges.  Without them my UcD amp with no preamp connected turns into an FM radio.  This is partly why my UcD amp never made it to the recent GTG.

JoshK

Fixed my Creek Integrated Amp
« Reply #5 on: 31 Oct 2005, 11:58 pm »
OT humerous anecdote.....

You want to know just how much RF I have in my place?  Well my modula MTMs have their crossovers laying on some boards outside the speaker boxes and I have canare cables terminated with a 4-pole speakon into the back of the speakers.  No amp is hooked up to the speakers at all, no speaker cables are wired to the crossovers, just the raw crossovers wired to the speakers.

Was making some temporary wire up and noticed a humming sound, so I put my ear up to the tweeter and there is a very audible hum.  Loud enough that I could hear it about a meter away!  No wonder I have tossed out all my unshielded ICs.

ctviggen

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Fixed my Creek Integrated Amp
« Reply #6 on: 8 Nov 2005, 12:35 am »
Sorry, I haven't been back here in a while!  Thanks for the hints -- I'll try these out (although not sure when -- this weekend, I'm installing a "whole house" wiring system, where each cable/phone/network goes to one location; then I have to insulate the attic and the ceiling of the garage; I'm estimating three entire weekends, including Veteran's day and Thanksgiving).  Since this is my second system (which paradoxically is the system I use the most!), I'll follow your recommendations and also add some more that Chris VH gave me.  As for noise, I plan on getting rid of the noise caused by my electronics through various techniques.  I have a refridge downstairs where my HT/main system is (and the computer I'm currently typing on), and when it shuts off, it'll briefly turn on my fluorescent light (!) near my computer.  

Anyway, here are the current pics.

The non-working Creek Integrated amp:



The after pic:



One dumb (other than using BG caps to bypass the diodes) thing I did was using $10 of caps on the Zobel network.   That probably didn't help anything.  

The case barely closes:



Although I'll be busy doing house stuff, I'll definitely check back and would love to hear more suggestions.  This will be my upgrade project (though I'm also thinking of creating some crossovers for my Linn speakers, also in my second system).

ctviggen

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Fixed my Creek Integrated Amp
« Reply #7 on: 8 Nov 2005, 12:46 am »
Oh yeah, I also wanted to point out the diode bridge and bypassing caps for the diodes, and the other caps I replaced, but the software I have does not let me write on the figure.  I was going to take the pictures to work, but because of the holidays this month, I won't be able to work on them at lunch.

This was a fun project -- so much fun that I've ordered (and received) two amplifier design books and a book on speaker design.  I also plan on ordering a book on power supply design.  I may go totally DIY for a while (and will definitely be building a Felicia, thanks to Josh and Occam).

ctviggen

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Fixed my Creek Integrated Amp
« Reply #8 on: 8 Nov 2005, 03:01 pm »
Hey, Creek Technical Support sent me schematics for my Integrated amp.  That's service!  Now I can figure out what caps and other items to replace without having to spend hours making my own schematic.