I want to build the best power supply for linkwitz Orion x-o

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Builder Brad

Hello,

I am currently using an Elpac WR12731 switching power supply for the Orion active x over in my system and think that I could either improve this piece of kit by upgrading some of the components or build another one!  My objective is to end up with the best supply possible to complement the rest of my system.

The Orion x-over uses OPA2134 OP amps which will work on a +-12 to 15 volt supply and the whole unit consumes 400milliamps. I originally tried to use the "super quiet" pre amp supply from the Elliot Sound Projects web site, but suffered from a ground loop hum that I could not completely remove, I even tried to run the L+R x overs off 2 x power supplies, however I did  use cheap +/- regulators and relatively low cost supply capacitors in both units.

I have tried using the felicia balanced power supply on the Elpac and experienced less of an improvement than using the Felicia on my Cd player or AKSa GK 1R pre-amp, could this indicate that the Elpac is closer to what I am looking for that I am giving it credit, or are other factors coming into play here?

I have heard about "super regulators" and Freds diodes (who is fred anyway?) but have not been able to find details to implement these components into the "ultimate" device I am thinking about.

Any pointers in my quest would be really appreciated.

Brad

ctviggen

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I want to build the best power supply for linkwitz Orion x-o
« Reply #1 on: 25 Oct 2005, 08:41 pm »
The DIY forum has some of this info:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=50c68588f95dafd0e6b4b9f0c0f6fc7c&forumid=67

The Eve lady on there is impressive.

Davey

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I want to build the best power supply for linkwitz Orion x-o
« Reply #2 on: 26 Oct 2005, 04:16 am »
Brad,

I think if I were you I'd acquire an Elpac supply with linear regulators for cheap and be done with it....and then go listen to music.  Something like the WM220-1:

http://www.elpac.com/uploads/documents/datasheets/wmpage34and35.pdf


However, I sense you're wanting to splurge and really pull out all the stops.  :)  I would use something based on the Sulzer/Borbely/Jung/Didden efforts that use pre-regulators to feed a following series regulator.  The more recent designs are labeled "Super-Regulators" and various other names, but if you Google on this you'll come up with a variety of different/simpler users designs that should be acceptable.

http://tangentsoft.net/elec/misc/diy-series-linregs.pdf

If you had some ground loop hum that may be an indication of some other wiring/connection problem rather than a problem with the Elliot power supply itself.

For my own Orion crossover I use a couple of little el-cheapo TDK switcher supplies that I picked up for a couple of bucks.  I know the guys here like Paul would roll their eyes at that, but they work okay.

Bob is correct.  There are many threads at DIYaudio related to supplies like these.

Cheers,

Davey.

Occam

I want to build the best power supply for linkwitz Orion x-o
« Reply #3 on: 26 Oct 2005, 04:47 am »
Hey Ron,

I do believe your switching ps is actually a WRI-2731?????
with the following PDF -
http://www.elpac.com/uploads/documents/datasheets/WRI1.pdf
I would suggest the following -
1. As switching supplies don't typically like having unloaded outputs, I'd put a 50ohm 5-10watt resistor accross pin 3 and one of the commons. This will draw 100ma of the 3amp rating of the 5v supply, unless you're actually already loading it.
2. Put 2k-10kuf of 25+v electrolytic caps, with the polarity correct, from +12v to ground (common) and from -12v to ground. At those elecrolytic's pins, bypass them with some nekk'd Epcos stacked polyester caps available from Farnell or Maplin. These are very low inductance, just what you need to shunt the hf crap. The fact that Felicia offers little benefit to the ps simply indicates that the switching itself is swamping any benefit provided by Felicia's powerconditioning. The added capacitance should ameliorate much of this switching 'hash'.

The above is really moot, as the Elpac switcher isn't going to give you the perfomance of even a mediocre linear ps. (this is not to say that a switching supply can't be superb, I'm simply saying that this switching supply can't...)

Your best hope is to eliminate that annoying ground loop hum. I'm assuming the linear supplies you've built are Rod's LM317/337 based ones? They're not the ultimate, but are quite servicable. If you're housing it in a metallic chassis, obviously you must ground the chassis to your mains ground. But you do not have to ground the power supply or signal ground (which I assume are tied together) of the crossover and its ps to that chassis, but rather let that ground be established via the signal grounds of your interconnects to the GK-1. [please, please don't tell me that your interconnect's signal ground is a high resistance 32ga wire or some such nonsense] But in reality we really don't know whether the ground loop is caused by ground disparities between your crossover and pre, or your crossover and amps...... I other words, we are stuck in ground loop HELL! And the only rational solution is to adopt the grounding discipline as charmingly extolled by Dan Banquer -
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=8780&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=ground+loop
it works.....*

As Davey points out, the quality of regulation issue is totally separate ( to a large extent ) from grounding issues. Assuming you can resolve your grounding issues and can get you ESP regulators to work without hum, again as Davey suggested, you can look at Jung/Didden type low noise regulators. Frankly, implementation of such regulators is beyond me as it requires substantial expertise in layout, ground planes as well as access to a high bandwidth oscilloscope to examine the results of your efforts. But there are regulators available, specifically in GB, Andrew L. Weekes makes a very high quality product.
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15588
http://www.alw.audio.dsl.pipex.com/
While I disagree with Mr. Weekes choice of wretched toroidal transformers, his regulators are quite excellent.

But obviously, this is predicated on resolving the hum issue. If you cannot resolve this, you might well get your present switching supply to preform substantially better as described in the first part of the post.

FWIW

*EDIT - Then again, Murphy's Law always rears her head. So you lift the signal/ps ground on your power amp from the chassis ground.... and now you embrace the latest craze of a Squeezedbox directly feeding your amp. And of course, you feed your SB with a 2 pronged ps, so now you've nothing connecting you signal/ps ground to your mains ground and your system hummmmms.  So now you've got to reconnect your amps ps/signal ground to the chassis ground which is connected to your mains ground. Its alway sumth'n.

andyr

Re: I want to build the best power supply for linkwitz Orion
« Reply #4 on: 26 Oct 2005, 09:40 am »
Quote from: Builder Brad
Hello, ...

I originally tried to use the "super quiet" pre amp supply from the Elliot Sound Projects web site, but suffered from a ground loop hum that I could not completely remove ...
Hi BB,

I have built two versions of Rod's L-R active crossovers and for one set, I used his P05 preamp power supply ... with absolutely no problems!!  Ripple is 2mV p-p and absolutely no hum.  However, I did choose his option of using an external voltage-reduction wall-pack transformer (outputting 16v AC), not a conventioanl power transformer inside the box.

Regards,

Andy

Builder Brad

I want to build the best power supply for linkwitz Orion x-o
« Reply #5 on: 28 Oct 2005, 02:38 pm »
Bob,

I have checked out the DIY Forum and have been looking at “super regulators” on this site http://home.swipnet.se/~w-50719/ …. Interesting stuff and possibly close to what I am looking for.

Davey,

I guess the Elpac linear reg is similar to the DIY esp kit that I had already built, I will need to sort out this ground loop issue if I am going to have any chance with a linear supply. The above link to the power supply PCB kits has lots of options based around the super regs you mention.

Occam,

The “improvements” to the Elpac supply are already built in to the Orion ASP as shown here:



With the exception of the load on the 5v output, which I will try.

The esp kit is based on the non adjustable pwr supply project from around 3 years ago, using standard el cheapo 8712 and 7912 regulators.

I think I should then really try to eliminate the ground hum and get the Elliot Sound Project power supplies to work with the Orions, from what you are saying I should expect the hear an improvement over the Elpac switched supply, is this correct? And I guess that the Felicia will also make a difference to the esp linear supplies.

Good point about the SB2 earthing

Andyr

I originally built the esp pwr supplies for a pair of the same active x-overs that you use and did not have any problems with hum. I am also using external plug in transformers – I just gave up when I could not get rid of the noise and used the Elpac unit because it seemed to work.

Brad

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