[Nick B]

I've read a lot about the Volex power cords and also saw the info about the Asylum power cord kit on the DIYcable site. I was thinking of ordering the Volex cords and adding the P & S AC plug and the Schurter IEC. Does anyone know if the Volex uses a shielded Belden cord? Is it the same as the Asylum kit? I'd like to spend no more than $60-70 per cord, otherwise will stick with the Volex. Comments and suggestions as to other good p/c kits are appreciated.

[dave_c]

I built the "Hospital Grade Kit" (third one down on the right hand column) from Cryo-Parts.  I like it quite a bit although I'm not using it on any 2 channel gear.  Its getting used on my DJ mixer right now but it did make things a bit quieter from the stock cord.  It's essentially the "Asylum Cord" with belden 19364 cable, marinco connectors. . .all cryoed.  As easy as it gets to build.

http://www.cryo-parts.com/pckit.html

Unfortunately it looks like they're out of stock right now.

[Occam]

Nick,

The cordage in the Asylum cord (Belden 19364) is 'equivalent' to that of the Volex 17604/5, gauge, lay, shielding..., save for the cabling filler, the material which is used to space the bedfoil shield away from the wires. That spacing is critical in that cords with shielding in conformal contact, like the Unicable, to use technical parlance, suck. On Belden 19364 the cabling filler is jute, whereas on the Volex its plastic.  The subjective  and electrical benefits of this spacing is inadvertant, as its intent is to make it more physically resilliant. Lucky happenstance.

The bass on the stock Volex is 'plummier' than that of the original Asylum cord, those with the P&S 5266 plug and soldered Schurter IEC. Some folks prefer the plummy bass. IMO, the subjective differences are sustantially due to the plug. Substituting the P&S plug makes the lower midbass 70-130hz more defined. The Marinco a bit less but overall quite 'warm', and the Futurtek.... Knock yourself out. If you want less plummy, more defined bass, you can get quite close via the P&S plug, which is convenient as sometimes you can find them at wholesalers for about $6.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=18044&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=10
bottom of the page onwards. One man's 'HUGE' is another's 'minor'.......

[Nick B]

Thanks both for your replies. Seems like the way to go is to get the Volex and ad the Schurter and P & S. Problem is apparently I need to solder the wires to the Schurter per the info on DIYcable.com. So that means buying a soldering iron, heat shrink etc to dress it up. None of this is hard, just a bit time-consuming. But I could get some good sounding pc's for about $25 each. I'm looking for the best sources for the Schurters and P &G's, but may not be worth it due to shipping costs if I source from different companies.  All this beats paying $150 or more each for pc's. I'm not going to do that anymore.

[Occam]

Nick -

Why do you insist on making your life difficult?
You don't want to buy a soldering iron; well dont.
Buy everything you need for maximal bang for the buck from one vendor at the best price. Make your life simple.
Tis better to light a single candle than curse the darkness.

Here is the Carlton-Bates homepage with links so you can call them -
http://cbchome.carlton-bates.com/

Here is their 6' Volexes with availability and quantity discounts -
http://www.carlton-bates.com/cb/invsrch/flocresult.asp?svend=BC&Start=0&Offset=10&srchfield=stkmfgpart&pmvndstkn=BC%2D17604%2FC3%2D25%2F10&pumdbn=41046

Here is their 9' Volexes with availability and quantity discounts -
http://www.carlton-bates.com/cb/invsrch/flocresult.asp?svend=BC&Start=0&Offset=10&srchfield=stkmfgpart&pmvndstkn=BC%2D17605%2FB1%2D50%2F10&pumdbn=41056

Here are their Pass & Seymour 5266X NEMA Plugs -
http://www.carlton-bates.com/cb/invsrch/flocresult.asp?svend=P7&Start=0&Offset=25&srchfield=stkmfgpart&pmvndstkn=P7%2D5266X&pumdbn=14982

Their minimum order is $25. They accept cc orders by phone.
You don't need no stink'n techflex, heatshrink or gegaws to turn your cords into Whores in Diors.
You don't even need to order the P&S plugs, but obviously you'll spend sleepless nights unless you do something to earn yourself your very own audiophile crediblility. And yes, they'll be a bit better, and you can upgrade the plugs without soldering. Thank goodness, CarltonBates doesn't stock Schurter products.

If you want to upgrade to the Schurter IECs at some later date when you feel up to the hassle and expense, you're free to do so. But nothing, absolutely nothing is precluding you from moving forward with no hassle. Make your life simple and minimal hassle and don't sweat the  mickey mouse stuff.

FWIW,
Occam

[jonwb]

Stop obscessing over this mickey mouse bullshit.

Ahhh... another warm and fuzzy post by Occam  

Actually Nick, there are lots of good recommendations in there.  Don't get discouraged by Occam's tone.  Take it from someone who has felt the "sting" several times before... he does it because he cares.  

BTW, I made some of the Chris VenHaus DIY designs (here).  They work great as far as I can tell.  The Flavor 2's I use on my amps are VERY thick and a bit unwieldy, but I get by.  Pretty straight forward construction... Even if you don't want a project of that scope he is a good source for parts.  Good luck w/ your power cords.

[Nick B]

Hey jonwb    I just consider this "tough love" from Occam. His "keep it simple" suggestions are a very good idea. I have a habit of doing everything right the first time, but I really didn't want to be bothered buying a soldering iron  right now. If I was still in LA, I could've gone to my buddy's house and had him do it. I'll check out the VH site, but the Volex idea with the P & S is so simple and cheap. I'll do the entire system with budget PC's. Occam, thanks for the advice and the links.

[Magic Robert]

if you want to make them yourself, go to the trouble of getting the Belden cord - or anything that doesn't have cheap plastic around and touching the conductors.  I don't believe any of the mumbo-jumbo about the dielectric - but I can hear it.

...and if you can find good connectors (as of last month) at Home Depot. they are beginning to carry the good ones.

If you don't want solder, you can find screw connections - although I solder.

...and if you are as lazy and busy as I am, check Audiogon and here regularly for a week of two and get some used (read that as burned-in) DIY cords for about $30.

Two weeks ago I bought a two old-style Bolder PC's for $60 shipped.  Nicest DIY style cords I have ever seen.  And good lord, do they sound good for the cost.

Just my thoughts and ramblings.

[Nick B]

Magic Robert     You mentioned regarding no solder connectors. I presume you meant only for the plugs, not the IECs.

[beatdownvictim]

if you want to make them yourself, go to the trouble of getting the Belden cord - or anything that doesn't have cheap plastic around and touching the conductors.  I don't believe any of the mumbo-jumbo about the dielectric - but I can hear it.

...and if you can find good connectors (as of last month) at Home Depot. they are beginning to carry the good ones.

If you don't want solder, you can find screw connections - although I solder.

...and if you are as lazy and busy as I am, check Audiogon and he ...

if you bought the power 1 and 2 cords that were on sale here        i wanted em oh well! damn it!

[Occam]

if you want to make them yourself, go to the trouble of getting the Belden cord - or anything that doesn't have cheap plastic around and touching the conductors.  I don't believe any of the mumbo-jumbo about the dielectric - but I can hear it.

Thats odd; 'cause I very much do believe in that dielectric mumbo-jumbo, as that what makes capacitors, both intended and parasitic, work. But the insulation on both the Volex cords and Belden cordage is 'cheap plastic', PVC, touching the conductors. It is only the cable filler that differs, and if the cords will be subject to heavy foot traffic, I agree, go with the Belden. But you can't buy the same length of 19364 as you can a complete Volex cord. Nor do I doubt for one second that you hear the difference. But that leads to a discussion of perception and testing methodologies, which I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot Texican. [ I don't allow discussion of DBT on the Lab board. It simply veers too close to religion, and it gets folks all het up.]

...and if you can find good connectors (as of last month) at Home Depot. they are beginning to carry the good ones.

If you don't want solder, you can find screw connections - although I solder.

I appreciate your specificity. I recommended the P&S 5266 because [I think] I know its specific impact on the Volex and/or other cords. My intent was to facilitate Rick easily conducting his own experiments and comparisons. Nor was my intent to dissuade Rick from experimenting with IECs, either soldered or screwed. Its just that CB carries specific items at very low prices. Its well and good that you, I and others have opinions as to the impact of various connecters and wires, but opinions are like xxxholes, everyone has one. Differing connecters certainly have their own 'flavor', but my intent was to let Nick form his own opinions with minimal cost and effort. Indeed, I'm quite the pedant.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=15325
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=18044

...and if you are as lazy and busy as I am, check Audiogon  and here regularly for a week of two and get some used (read that as burned-in) DIY cords for about $30.

Two weeks ago I bought a two old-style Bolder PC's for $60 shipped. Nicest DIY style cords I have ever seen. And good lord, do they sound good for the cost. ...

I do hope that you didn't buy any of the cords my cat used to sell on Gon. His product was quite variable, depending on whether he'd been hitting the catnip. Certainly, there are some great bargains on Audiogon, depending on what, and from who you buy. Some very good vendors got their start selling on Gon, and by reputation some of the 'garage vendors' currently there make excellent, high value products. Regardless, none of them will be as inexpensive as the Volexes, even with the 5266s. IMO, its questionable as to whether some these 'bargains' are better, or justify the incremental costs. It depends on one's metrics.
FWIW

[Carlman]

My all time favorite is Ernie's Belden 83802 power cord recipe.  I have not heard better personally.... they're reasonably sold on Audiogon.

For outlets, I'm using the Porter Port also sold on Audiogon.

I've got Volex, the 19364 kits, and the 83802 all in my room today.. the Volex and 19364 are similar as far as I'm concerned... the 83802 trumps them in every way.. resolution, darker darks, detailed mids, etc.

Another good 'cheap' PC is the Kimber Kable stuff.  I bought one used for $25 and have been quite pleased with it.  As you can tell, I'm not an uber-spender when it comes to PC's.  I did however, invest in a dedicated outlet... which at $200, costs much less than most power cords...  

BTW, installing the dedicated outlet did allow me to hear more/better differences between power cords on certain devices.  The most dramatic difference for me has been on preamps/integrateds.  The 83802 really pulled ahead of the pack once the new line was installed.

-C

[Occam]

Carl - Thanks for the specific recommendation based on your comparitive evaluation.

We've communicated and I've been reading your posts for some time. I've 'callibrated' my ascessments against yours, and we generally agree on amps, cables, etc.....

http://www.audiogon.com/
type in 'ernie' in the seach box and hit 'search'
dunno what his EST treatment is, but I certainly don't begrudge him his minimal profit.

[ohenry]

Thanks Carlman and Occam for the info.  The "Ernie" cords look to be another flavor for the frugal (me) to try.  

[Jon L]

My all time favorite is Ernie's Belden 83802 power cord recipe.  I have not heard better personally.... they're reasonably sold on Audiogon.

For outlets, I'm using the Porter Port also sold on Audiogon.

I've got Volex, the 19364 kits, and the 83802 all in my room today.. the Volex and 19364 are similar as far as I'm concerned... the 83802 trumps them in every way.. resolution, darker darks, detailed mids, etc.

Another good 'cheap' PC is the Kimber Kable stuff.  I bought one used for $25 and have be ...

What IS Ernie's Belden 83802 recipe anyway?  I've made tons of Belden 83802 variants, some double-run, some shielded/unshielded, etc.  Do you know what Ernie's doing with 83802?  Does he strip off the red jacket and braid/foil shield?  Is he spiraling a ground wire around the cord?  

I need to make a couple of more DIY cords, and I've been investigating some other 'interesting' options for a different flavor.  Am looking at some of the cheaper (if that can be ever said) Furutech plugs/IEC's...

[Magic Robert]

If you don't want to solder, Schluter makes an IEC connector.  In fact the picture is used on the how-to on one of the DIY cords - the asyslum one i think.  I personally think solder works better - and I cannot hear the difference between the good RatShack silver (cheap) and WBT (the opposite of cheap).

As far as the dielectric on a power cord, the numbers do not make intuitive sense to me.  The capacitance is (usually) trivial - and I have never seen the circuit diagram that explains what I hear - but I do, even in double-blind tests.

My goal is jumping in to the discussion is simple - to get a better power cord bought.  Until you hear the difference in stock versus $30 DIY, you (or at least I) may not beleive how much difference it makes.  My best friend, an engineer, thinks I am nuts.

Next, power conditioning - the dive off the big cliff.  Of course that one can be tested without spending money.  Listen to your gear some night at 3 AM when the power is not so dirty...

...and yes, I bought those Bolder power cords for the same reason that beatdownvictim tried to buy them.  We just knew...

Finally, rule # 1.  know who you are buying from.  The guys (and girls) here or at Head-Fi are a cut above.  At the 'Gon - check the feedback.  There is some trash and there are some deals.

Oh yeah, remember, it's about the music, no the gear.

As they say at Head-Fi, "Welcome...sorry about your wallet."

[Carlman]

I'm not sure what the 'EST' process is that Ernie's talking about because I bought mine before he started doing that.  I think he told me at one point.. just give him a call or email.  Like Occam said, just type 'ernie' on audiogon and check it out.

The 'recipe' isn't anything special... 83802 + AC plug + Schurter IEC = 1 Ernie cord.  This was the case when I bought them.  However, he did recommend wrapping the cord with the ground.... Looks like he's made that suggestion part of the recipe now.  Also, I think he has a way of switching the ground on and off on one of his cords... kind of neat.  The only thing I didn't like about his cords was the use of clear PVC around them.  So, you have this bright red cord surrounded by clear flexi-tube... I just didn't like the look.  Plus, the cable is stiff enough without adding extra mass.  Plus, the red teflon jacket is VERY tough and it didn't need any additional protection for/from me.

Glad you found this helpful.... Ernie's not out to make a million, that's for sure.  But he's been selling these for years... I bought mine over 2 years ago.  If I'd had the extra $ lying around, I would've used the 83803 to wire my dedicated outlet.

-C

[Magic Robert]

I knew I forgot one thing.  I my original post, I edited before sending I inadvertently removed the specific reference to brand.

HD (or Lowe's) now carries P & S connectors - the 4266 & most of the popular variants.  I have no strong preference between the P & S, Marinco, etc. (I can't really hear the difference - but then, I have old ears.)

[Ulas]

Nick, There are a number of outlets that offer Volex power cords at better prices than Carlton-Bates. But if you want to DIY and are willing to get a power cord that is 10-100x better than the garbage already mentioned, you should consider Belden 83704 or 83754 in star-quad configuration. Take Five Audio has the wire cryoed, if that means anything to you, and a recipe for star-quad cable. IMHO, the recipe is fine except I would do without the techflex, shrink-wrap, and bling-bling AC connectors. You can also get the raw Belden cable elsewhere for much less. Or you can follow Occam’s advice. Remember, he is the guy who recommenced using a breaker GFCI to protect people and equipment down stream from his balanced power conditioner. I don’t think Occam knows anything about electricity.

[Jon L]

Nick, There are a number of outlets that offer Volex power cords at better prices than Carlton-Bates. But if you want to DIY and are willing to get a power cord that is 10-100x better than the garbage already mentioned, you should consider Belden 83704 or 83754 in star-quad configuration. Take Five Audio has the wire cryoed, if that means anything to you, and a recipe for star-quad cable. IMHO, the recipe is fine except I would do without the techflex, shrink-wrap, and bling-bling AC connectors. You can als ...

I'm somewhat interested in trying to 83754, but have you compared it to 83802 (single run or shotgun)?

Do you know any other source of 83754, non-cryo'd?