Battery'd TEAC with VR-4jr.'s

JDUBS · « **on:** 16 Oct 2005, 04:37 am »

Has anyone tried this combo?

I've been really confused about what my next set of speakers should be. The VR-4jr.'s are well praised by many and are now being considered.

At 89db / 1 meter they seem to be not all that sensitive, but are 6-ohm, so maybe not too bad for the TEAC?

Curious what other people think.

Thanks all!

-Jim

Gordy · « **Reply #1 on:** 16 Oct 2005, 01:08 pm »

I drove my 86dB / 8 ohm Borealis's to decent levels (85-90dB per a RS meter) using a stock Teac with no problem, but in all honesty I didn't go any louder. This was in a "leaky" 230 sq. ft. room with a diy bass trap in one front corner and almost adequate front wall absorption, books lining most of one side wall and drapes on the opposite side wall. A 72" opening leading to the dining room is partially blocked with a 40" book cabinet floor to ceiling. A fake oriental rug hides my wall to wall rug...

If I remember correctly... I was able to run my tx-102 tranny preamp pegged (in the 1:1 position) with the Teac, so I'm guessing the Teac has less than 26db gain? Two different tube pre's had more than adequate drive for it though.

So, in a smallish 200 sq. ft. or less room you'll be fine, in a large room you won't be listening to "realistic" levels and in either case I'd get at least a 7ah battery for the Teac if you want to get long listening sessions... or bi-amp! Just my opinion / experience / in my room / with my ears....

Hope it helps!

suits_me · « **Reply #2 on:** 16 Oct 2005, 11:03 pm »

Even though I haven't heard the modded or stock Teac that pairing does not intuitively strike me as a balanced system in terms of relative cost or power output, even if these digital watts are thought to play bigger than ss wattts.

86db is not always the same; you can drive an inefficient, limited bandwidth monitor with a small amp because there's no issue of gripping a large woofer in a large cabinet or producing low bass or producing high spls. Those things don't happen with a typical monitor; they can and should happen with the VS.

Now, if you could passively or actively bi-amp with modded Teacs...then maybe. The _stock_ speakers don't permit tri-amping.

JoshK · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 Oct 2005, 12:42 am »

If you want to stay on the cheap and the battery'd TEACs can't do the full range V-jrs, then grab a Behringer Europower 1500 for $250, use it on the bass (you can dissable the fan most likely) and use the TEAC on the highs. You don't need to triamp and would probably yield you nothing doing so.

JDUBS · « **Reply #4 on:** 17 Oct 2005, 12:52 am »

Many thanks, all! Honestly, I just really want to go battery powered....and the TEAC seems like the best (only!) option for use with such speakers at the VR4jr.'s given that they throw off 30 watts a side.

I think the VR4jr.'s are a reasonably easy-to-drive speaker...with in room sensitivity >90 db.

Worst case scenario, though, is the need to biamp, which isn't all that bad. Would still have that magical TEAC for the important stuff!

Josh do you have experience with that Behringer you're recommending? It sure is priced right! Those Hypex modules are tempting though for the bass side. I wish THOSE could be battery powered!!

Also, just some background on my leaning towards the vr4jr.'s. I would have really liked to have gone single driver, but I've just heard too much regarding single driver's inability to handle REALLY dynamic material.

JoshK · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 Oct 2005, 01:21 am »

No I don't have experience with the Behr, but it is a QSC clone from what I've read, and I have read good things about it. The Fan is noisy apparently but that can be dealt with, either replace it with a quiet one, undervolt it (place a resistor of appropriate wattage in front of hot lead to fan), or unplug it (if you know or monitor the operating temps).

The UcD hypex amps can be battery powered. Mwuhahah.

Here are my SLA powered hypex amps. BUT!!! the ADS battery power packs are no longer available. Noone listened to Occam (including me at the time) and picked them up when they were available (except for Gordy) and now they are gone. Occam sold me his fortunately for me.

Gordy · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 Oct 2005, 01:33 am »

Josh and I are both driving UcD's with batteries...

Edit: Dang, Josh, you bet me to it

JDUBS · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 Oct 2005, 02:04 am »

Oh man, you guys are killing me! That is awesome!!

So what is so special about the ADS battery packs? Surely such a Hypex amp can be replicated with readily available equipment? Or maybe not?!

Vinnie, what do you think? This would get you covered in terms of amps of varying power ranges! Clairi-T -> TEAC -> Hypex!

JoshK · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 Oct 2005, 02:58 am »

Quote from: JDUBS

Oh man, you guys are killing me! That is awesome!!

So what is so special about the ADS battery packs? Surely such a Hypex amp can be replicated with readily available equipment? Or maybe not?!

Vinnie, what do you think? This would get you covered in terms of amps of varying power ranges! Clairi-T -> TEAC -> Hypex!

The deal was the ADS packs were cheap and included the charger (4x 12V 7ah SLA's in each, and you need two packs for the Hypex supplies). If you go out and buy 8 12V 7ah SLAs new and add in the charger(s) you are looking at >$300 for this alone. We spent like $25+$25/shipping each.

Gordy · « **Reply #9 on:** 17 Oct 2005, 02:59 am »

Hi JDUBS,

There was nothing real special about the ADS's except the price! We bought them from an excess supply house for $25, about $60 delivered. They were $350(?) units

To do it with separate components you would need two 48 volt supplies (8 - 7ah SLA's) to power two mono UcD 400's plus two 48v chargers, some big caps, multiple switches and a custom chassis to house it all, so the price would escalate very quickly. Then there would be the weight factor, my stereo unit (soon to be units

) is an easy 90 lbs...

There is also a power hit of sorts as well, with ~54v output we are only getting about 150 watts @ 8 ohms out of the modules, they could produce as much as 200 watts...

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #10 on:** 17 Oct 2005, 11:19 am »

Quote from: JDUBS

Oh man, you guys are killing me! That is awesome!!

So what is so special about the ADS battery packs? Surely such a Hypex amp can be replicated with readily available equipment? Or maybe not?!

Vinnie, what do you think? This would get you covered in terms of amps of varying power ranges! Clairi-T -> TEAC -> Hypex!

Hi JDUBS,

I am not familiar with the sound of the battery powered Hypex unit, so I cannot comment on them. JoshK and Gordy speak highly of them, so I can imagine how good they sound.

Getting back to the Tripath based amps... there is a Positive Feedback reviewer (who has been away on business for quite a while, poor guy) who is still reviewing a stock Clari-T with the Omega Mini MEs. He tried the Clari-T with his VR-4 Jrs. and was very surprised (impressed!) to find that the 6-watt Clari-t actually was able to drive this speaker pretty darn well

My guess is that the modded Teac will have plenty of juice to drive them even better, and I'd use it over the Clari-T with those speakers, unless you are not looking to play too loud.

You should try the stock Teac with your VR-4jrs if you can as a starting point. The SLA battery modded Teac has more muscle than the stock one. The bass goes deeper, has more punch and much better control over the stock unit. The midrange sounds less thin, and the highs are a lot less grainy sounding than the stock unit.

FWIW, a few of my modded Teac customers have used it to replace higher powered amps that don't have the speed, control, dynamics, and low-level of the battery Teac....not to mention the ultra-black background noise!

suits_me · « **Reply #11 on:** 17 Oct 2005, 04:35 pm »

With what speakers at what spls and in what size rooms?

The 47 Labs folks say on their website (or used to) that their chip amp would drive any speaker. I emailed them about it with the benign example of the 2Ce, and they quite properly began to qualify the claim.

This question should be understood as coming from someone who is interested in your mods. As you know, my question here is the aptness of pairing a non-biamped Teac of any flavor with the VS under discussion, 89 db or no, not with your products in and of themselves (which I hope to hear.)

roymail · « **Reply #12 on:** 17 Oct 2005, 09:49 pm »

I bought my Teac AL700P (3 channel T amp) about 3 months ago from Amazon for $99.00 shipped. Needle Doctor was selling them for about $100.00 back at that time, too. I just did a quick perusal for this unit on Google, and they certainly appear to be in short supply if available at all. That's a shame but it's common since mid-fi audio products are constantly changing models. I'm holding on to mine for now since the day may come when I decide to send it to Vinnie. But for now, the modded Clari-T continues to amaze me more and more. Just for kicks, I recently connected it to some 89db ACI 2-ways, and the results were very nice at reasonable listening levels. However, they just can't pull off the sonic bliss which is achieved using well designed single drivers. But, if I ever decide to drop back to 89db or 90db speakers, I would not think twice about what amp to use. It would be an RWA modded Teac for sure. However, I'm headed in the Visaton B200 direction. Just my 2 cents FWIW. Thanks!

tubesguy · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 Oct 2005, 02:54 am »

I'm sure that someone has noticed that the Teac is _not_ a two-channel amp. I realize that everyone (including me) immediately pulls the other amp board out, but one way to go is ... the other way. Add another set of RCAs and an apppropriate power supply, outboard if necessary, and you've got your biamp amp right there. Just a thought. - Pat