Video processor for me? Yes or no.

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 1869 times.

Eric5676

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 162
    • Blu Ray Oasis
Video processor for me? Yes or no.
« on: 12 Oct 2005, 06:29 pm »
Here's the story:

I'm wondering how much, if any, benefit/point there is me buying any processor given that my display is "only" a Sony KD34XBR960 Direct View tube.

It is ISF calibrated.

Equipment would be:

Onkyo DV-SP 1000 (I know that both the DVDO and this share the SIL-504 chip, so I know I can't really improve much here, nor could I imagine doing much better, in terms of PQ.)

HD Satellite receiver.

Any number of video game systems, new and old.

Viewing distance: About 6-8 feet, give or take.

On the table is a very generous preorder sale price on DVDO's new VP30.

I realize that the Sony 960 is considered a reference monitor, but I also know that the tube has its limitations.

Some things I know I'll need in the future will be the HDMI switching, which, a 4X1 HDMI switcher isn't that much cheaper than the price I have on the table right now.

I realize that a video processor offers a lot of nice things, customization, flexibility ,etc. etc. but my TV is going to be able to do so much. I recognize its limits.

I guess I'm just trying to balance reality and overkill vs. anything else. I need you all to be my muses.

Give it to me straight and without mercy. ;)

wshuff

Video processor for me? Yes or no.
« Reply #1 on: 12 Oct 2005, 06:52 pm »
Q, I got a Focus Enhancements CS-1 a couple of months ago at a price that beats even the VP30 pre-order.  The CS-1 is older and doesn't have the input/output flexibility of the VP30, but it does use the same Sil chip.  I'm also using a much different display (a 61" JVC HD-ILA).  

My initial impression is that the CS-1 makes a subtle but noticeable improvement, although the degree of improvement is dependent on the source.  Non-HD cable is cleaned up a bit, which leads me to believe that the CS-1 does a better job than my TV's internal video processing.  For DVD I only use the CS-1 to scale the output from my Denon 2200,   Compared to my Oppo outputting at 720p it is a toss-up, probably more a function of the different deinterlacing chips than anything else.  I'm still tweaking the CS-1 for LD (the big reason that I wanted it in the first place) but haven't had a chance to calibrate with my LD of A Video Standard.  My anticipation is that the CS-1 will make the most difference there.

With respect to your situation, I can only imagine that the VP30 would offer the same type of subtle benefit, and since you are using a much smaller screen, it will likely be even more subtle.   Since you already have a great DVD player using the same chip, I wouldn't expect any significant improvement there.  SD from satellite would probably be improved, depending on the quality of the source to begin with.  All in all, though, my guess is that the difference you see on screen wouldn't justify the purchase.

So does that mean I'm saying don't buy it?  Nope.  I think you should, because I know how good the price is, and like you mentioned, it isn't that much more than buying an HDMI switcher.  The flexibility the VP30 adds would be worth the difference in price, and  should you upgrade to a larger screen, the video processing of the VP30 would come into play.  If nothing else, though, you should be able to use the VP30 as a hub once you start adding HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players.

Plus, the icing on the cake is that once DVDO offers its next generation model with improved video processing (perhaps 1080p processing), you'll be able to take advantage of the trade-in policy.  So if I were in your shoes, I'd probably stay on the list.

Eric5676

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 162
    • Blu Ray Oasis
Video processor for me? Yes or no.
« Reply #2 on: 12 Oct 2005, 06:54 pm »
Quote from: wshuff
Q, I got a Focus Enhancements CS-1 a couple of months ago at a price that beats even the VP30 pre-order. The CS-1 is older and doesn't have the input/output flexibility of the VP30, but it does use the same Sil chip. I'm also using a much different display (a 61" JVC HD-ILA).

My initial impression is that the CS-1 makes a subtle but noticeable improvement, although the degree of improvement is dependent on the source. Non-HD cable is cleaned up a bit, which leads me to believe that the CS-1 does a better job than my TV's internal video processing. For DVD I only use the CS-1 to scale the output from my Denon 2200, Compared to my Oppo outputting at 720p it is a toss-up, probably more a function of the different deinterlacing chips than anything else. I'm still tweaking the CS-1 for LD (the big reason that I wanted it in the first place) but haven't had a chance to calibrate with my LD of A Video Standard. My anticipation is that the CS-1 will make the most difference there.

With respect to your situation, I can only imagine that the VP30 would offer the same type of subtle benefit, and since you are using a much smaller screen, it will likely be even more subtle. Since you already have a great DVD player using the same chip, I wouldn't expect any significant improvement there. SD from satellite would probably be improved, depending on the quality of the source to begin with. All in all, though, my guess is that the difference you see on screen wouldn't justify the purchase.

So does that mean I'm saying don't buy it? Nope. I think you should, because I know how good the price is, and like you mentioned, it isn't that much more than buying an HDMI switcher. The flexibility the VP30 adds would be worth the difference in price, and should you upgrade to a larger screen, the video processing of the VP30 would come into play. If nothing else, though, you should be able to use the VP30 as a hub once you start adding HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players.

Plus, the icing on the cake is that once DVDO offers its next generation model with improved video processing (perhaps 1080p processing), you'll be able to take advantage of the trade-in policy. So if I were in your shoes, I'd probably stay on the list.


LOL, you've literally spelled out my thoughts, back and forth on this, to a tee!  :lol:  

Thanks for this input! :)

Eric5676

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 162
    • Blu Ray Oasis
Video processor for me? Yes or no.
« Reply #3 on: 20 Apr 2006, 02:57 pm »
Despite myself, this new ABT deinterlacing card that's coming out in April to be upgraded into the DVDP VP30 hast me intruiged...

The SIL504 has been long in the tooth for a while. Excellent for film, ho-hum for video.

I really like what I'm reading about ABT's solution to this.  

Still eager to start really seeing the next generation hardware hit the market from Realta, Teranex, HQV, etc.

I think that Lumagen Radiance is going to be a killer when it finally hits the market, for example...

(WAY out of my price range and consideration given my present display, of course. Just interested in the subject. ;) )

wshuff

Video processor for me? Yes or no.
« Reply #4 on: 20 Apr 2006, 03:26 pm »
So do you have the VP30 now?

Eric5676

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 162
    • Blu Ray Oasis
Video processor for me? Yes or no.
« Reply #5 on: 20 Apr 2006, 04:04 pm »
Quote from: wshuff
So do you have the VP30 now?


No. I never bothered.

In the end, if I'm keeping my present display for another 2-3 years, I'd probably go more for something like this:

HDMI Switcher


From everything I gathered, I just didn't see there being enough upside for me to spend upwards of $1500+ on a VP with my present display, given everything else.

wshuff

Video processor for me? Yes or no.
« Reply #6 on: 20 Apr 2006, 05:30 pm »
That makes sense.  That Monoprice switcher also is a new variable.  I've had my eye on it, too.  I currently have an Oppo hooked up to my display's HDMI input, but I also have an HD cable box and D-VHS player that use HDMI, but I use component because I only have the one HDMI input.  Add Blu-Ray (I'm more inclined to go that way over HD-DVD once there are actually movies available), and that Monoprice switcher starts to come in handy.  I could use HDMI for all of my sources.  Plus, Shawn Fogg from AVS and the Lexicon forum has a box he calls the universal translator that I think will allow that Monoprice switcher to integrate with my Lexicon MC-8.  I choose the Oppo input, it chooses the corresponding input on the switcher.  I pick Blu-Ray, it switches to that input.

As for the ABT upgrade, I've seen rumblings and look forward to reading the real reports.  By the time you upgrade your display to something larger, you should have all kinds of choices if you want a top-notch scaler.  In the meantime, the setup you have now ain't too shabby.

Eric5676

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 162
    • Blu Ray Oasis
Video processor for me? Yes or no.
« Reply #7 on: 20 Apr 2006, 05:46 pm »
Quote from: wshuff
That makes sense.  That Monoprice switcher also is a new variable.  I've had my eye on it, too.


I really appreciated the 7 "customer reviews" they already posted there.

I figure: If the quality is good, at that price, I could take it for a test whirl, if nothing else, at minimal loss.

Usually, I've heard nothing but good things about MP's products.



Quote
  I currently have an Oppo hooked up to my display's HDMI input, but I also have an HD cable box and D-VHS player that use HDMI, but I use component because I only have the one HDMI input.  Add Blu-Ray (I'm more inclined to go that way over HD-DVD once there are actually movies available),


Me, too. I'm definitely favoring BR without hesitation or question.


Quote
...and that Monoprice switcher starts to come in handy.  I could use HDMI for all of my sources.


It would be nice and clean.

In my case, I know I'm getting a PS3 no matter what. Maybe a stand alone BR player sometime after that, if I have a few of my questions satisfied.

I have the Onkyo 1000 on HDMI as is. So all of a sudden, you can see where something like this would come into play rather quickly.


Quote
Plus, Shawn Fogg from AVS and the Lexicon forum has a box he calls the universal translator that I think will allow that Monoprice switcher to integrate with my Lexicon MC-8. I choose the Oppo input, it chooses the corresponding input on the switcher. I pick Blu-Ray, it switches to that input.


Sounds sweet. Let me know what you find out. :)


Quote


As for the ABT upgrade, I've seen rumblings and look forward to reading the real reports. By the time you upgrade your display to something larger, you should have all kinds of choices if you want a top-notch scaler. In the meantime, the setup you have now ain't too shabby..


If you saw my other bumped thread, getting that Ideal Lume backlight really was an impressive finisher! I really can't recommend backlighting enough to EVERYONE! :)

wshuff

Video processor for me? Yes or no.
« Reply #8 on: 20 Apr 2006, 05:55 pm »
I haven't seen the backlighting thread.  This forum?

As for Shawn's Universal Translater, I think Secrets took a look at one a few weeks ago.  It should give you all the information you need.  I think Shawn is more a hobbyist than a manufacturer, but he's made switch-boxes to allow connection of multiple DVD-A/SACD players to Lex products and so forth.  The article on the translator points out the pitfalls of trying to get different gear to communicate with one another when they were never intended to do so from the beginning, but from reading Shawn's posts on the Lexicon forum I know that he has a translator working in his setup.  You can find some information by doing a search on the Lexicon forum, too.

Eric5676

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 162
    • Blu Ray Oasis
Video processor for me? Yes or no.
« Reply #9 on: 20 Apr 2006, 06:02 pm »
Quote from: wshuff
I haven't seen the backlighting thread.  This forum?


http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=20375  

See last post. I should have been more specific when I said that I bumped an old thread. ;)



Quote


As for Shawn's Universal Translater, I think Secrets took a look at one a few weeks ago.  It should give you all the information you need.  I think Shawn is more a hobbyist than a manufacturer, but he's made switch-boxes to allow connection of multiple DVD-A/SACD players to Lex products and so forth.  The article on the translator points out the pitfalls of trying to get different gear to communicate with one another when they were never intended to do so from the beginning, but from reading Shawn's posts on the Lexicon forum I know that he has a translator working in his setup. You can find some information by doing a search on the Lexicon forum, too.


Sound neat. I'll see what I can dig up.

levesque

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 35
Video processor for me? Yes or no.
« Reply #10 on: 26 Apr 2006, 01:52 pm »
Q

If you're using any 1080i sources (HD-DVD, satellite HD, etc) you should avoid the VP30 for now, and consider a Gennum VXP or Realta HQV scaler. The "old" Sil504 of the VP30 is performing a simple "bob" with 1080i, but the new chips (Gennum and Realta) are doing true inverse telecine (film mode) and per-pixel motion adaptive de-interlacing in video mode with BOTH 480i AND 1080i...

The Vantage HD would be a better choice. The upcoming Crystalio II or Algolith Dragonfly also. The Anthem D2 is a pre/pro, but with a world class integrated scaler using Gennum VXP. It's really a breakthrough product.

Eric5676

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 162
    • Blu Ray Oasis
Video processor for me? Yes or no.
« Reply #11 on: 26 Apr 2006, 02:10 pm »
Quote from: levesque
Q

If you're using any 1080i sources (HD-DVD, satellite HD, etc) you should avoid the VP30 for now, and consider a Gennum VXP or Realta HQV scaler. The "old" Sil504 of the VP30 is performing a simple "bob" with 1080i, but the new chips (Gennum and Realta) are doing true inverse telecine (film mode) and per-pixel motion adaptive de-interlacing in video mode with BOTH 480i AND 1080i...

The Vantage HD would be a better choice. The upcoming Crystalio II or Algolith Dragonfly also. The Anthem D2 is a pre/pr ...


I know what you mean. At this point, just about anyone on the fence should wait for a truly next gen product.

But the awesome hardware you speak of?... My display costs less than two grand in and of itself and is only 34 inches wide.

Kinda seems like overkill, doesn't it? ;)

wshuff

Video processor for me? Yes or no.
« Reply #12 on: 26 Apr 2006, 05:27 pm »
Overkill?  I'd say yes.

The VP30 would have been worthwhile because I know what you would have been paying with that special pre-order.  At that price, even if I had a small display I might have jumped on it, knowing that I would get a generous trade-up for the next iScan product.  

The Gennum and Realta scalers cost significantly more.  While the VP30 may have only given you a small improvement on your set, at least the cost wouldn't have been so great.

Eventually you'll upgrade and get a larger display.  By that point, who knows what scalers might be around.  Might as well wait.

Eric5676

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 162
    • Blu Ray Oasis
Video processor for me? Yes or no.
« Reply #13 on: 26 Apr 2006, 05:39 pm »
Quote from: wshuff
Overkill?  I'd say yes.

The VP30 would have been worthwhile because I know what you would have been paying with that special pre-order.  At that price, even if I had a small display I might have jumped on it, knowing that I would get a generous trade-up for the next iScan product.  

The Gennum and Realta scalers cost significantly more.  While the VP30 may have only given you a small improvement on your set, at least the cost wouldn't have been so great.

Eventually you'll upgrade and get a larger display.  By that point, who knows what scalers might be around.  Might as well wait.


Exactly.