Bob's View of RMAF

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Aether Audio

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Bob's View of RMAF
« on: 5 Oct 2005, 10:23 pm »
Guys,

Well, RMAF is over and hopefully everybody made it home safe and sound.  I hope everyone enjoyed the show this year.  There seemed to be quite a few more vendors/companies represented but not as many attendees.  I suppose the recent events in New Orleans and the associated gas prices may have something to do with that.  That, and the general decline of high-end audio in general.  Oh well...

I want to thank everybody involved in demonstrating our gear - starting with Mike Garner from TweekGeek.com.  Were it not for him, we probably wouldn't have been there at all this year.  (We're saving our pennies for T.H.E. Show in January.)  He has helped us as much as anyone could ever ask - and tons more.

I also want to thank Steve Chang of Chang Audio Network.  His pre-show party was a gas and he was a real trooper through the whole thing.  His enthusiastic spirit kept me going when i was really feeling the stress.

Danny Richie of GR Research and Joe Jurzec of JAM'n Audio need to be thanked as well.  Each of those fine gentlemen helped in whatever ways they could and were a great encouragement to the rest of our crew.  All-in-all, I have nothing but thanks to everyone involved - and to all that stopped by our room as well.  THANKS!!!...for taking the time out of your busy schedule.  We appreciate it much.

Now...for the ugly part.  Well...not really ugly, but just a tad bit of disappointment.

When we got to the Tech Center on Thursday, Mike had left to have dinner with his wife.  I couldn't contact him so we all just went on over to Steve's house for the party.  I had wanted to help tweak the room, but when I went to the room I could hear music playing through the door, so I figured he was all done setting up and was letting the system burn-in overnight.

On Friday morning when I got to the room, I felt the sound was pretty "boomy" sounding.  I figured the high frequencies sounded recessed in comparison because the excess bass was swamping them out.  We moved the acoustic panels around a bit and that seemed to help, but I still wasn't happy.  Nevertheless, one expects such sound in those little rooms so I resigned myself to the fact that it was about as good a sound as possible.  I was wrong.

Mike was demo-ing with the McCormack UDP-1 CD/SACDplayer and the McCormack MDP-1(?) preamp.  Power was delivered by the Nuforce Ref 9's.  Althoough I wasn't personally familiar with any of that gear except the Nuforce, I figured it was about as good as one could hope for and certainly up to the task of delivering very excellent performance.  I was wrong.

Now, don't gt me wrong, I couldn't be more thankful to Mike, and his gear is definately better than what I have back here at the shop so...beggars  can't be choosers.  It was his room and I had nothing else to offer.  Like I said, I was just thankful to be there.

But...Saturday night we had an eye-opening experience.  My dear friend Joe Jurzec came by our room in the afternoon that day and after listening to the system he said very emphatically, "We have to get that Modwright preamp in this system!"  Now, I had heard the Modwright/Nuforce combo in my shop the day Joe came for his tweeter upgrade.  I've already posted about the sound we heard that day.  Back then I attributed a good part of that sound to the impedance mod I did on the crossover.  I still know that the mod made a huge difference, but what I didn't know then was just how good the Modwright/Nuforce combo was.

So anyway, down the hall Joe marches and before long, he's walking in with a preamp.  Mike didn't mind at all so what was I going to say?  It was after 6:00PM by then and the show was essentially over for the day, so why not give it a try?

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


By writing this I don't expect anybody reading it to think anything other than the fact that I'm trying to make excuses for the sound of the room.  If I were one of you guys and I heard our room (or not)...and then I read this, that's exactly what I would be thinking.  So take what follows with a grain of salt - I'm sure you will.  In fact, if anything good comes from this, let it be this:  If you ever get a chance to try a Modwright preamp in your system...DO IT!!!  What follows is not so much an excuse for the sound of our speakers as it is an endorsement for Modwright.  That preamp was magnificent and totally transformed the sound of our speakers!

Before the Modwright, the sound had little in the way of micro-dynamics, there was virtually no "air" around the instruments or proper ambient decay and the sound was essentially dry and lifeless.  As I said before, I just attributed the sound to the fact that the room was too small and boomy.  Since I've been back from the show, I've even spoken with others that said they were told the same thing by folks that heard our room.

Well, when we inserted the Modwright in place of the McCormack everything came to life.  It was like someone had removed some form of curtain from in front of the speakers.  The highs were more detailed but not bright, and I could easily hear all the ambient cues in the recordings.  

Our "sound" was back.  I could actually hear ambience seem to come from behind my head and every instrument had it's own space, while a richness of "presence" eminated from the front of the room.  I would never have believed it if I hadn't heard it myself.  I don't know what that little puppy did or what's going on inside it, but you'd have to be deaf in one ear and not be able to hear out of the other in order to not hear the difference.

In retrospect, I guess it all makes sense.  Our speakers are designed to be as transparent and true to the source as possible.  They only put out what they're being fed so I guess that little experience was a testamony to their accuracy.  But except for the guys involved in our room and a couple of others (I think Dan Wright heard it) nobody else knows that came to our room.  I guess it was a good experiment in the end, but a show is no place to be experimenting - AAARRGGHHH!!!!

I'll tell you one thing:  At T.H.E. Show we're going to have either that preamp or one just as good in our setup.  Sunday morning we had to give Dan his preamp back and when we put the McCormack back in I felt like..."What's the point?  We might as well just tear down the gear and go home."  It was like somebody stole our speakers and substituted some Best-Buy junk.

That's what you get when you put all your money into manufacturing equipment and don't have the funds left to experiment with the front-end electronics.  To be honest, folks ask me for recommendations on amplifiers and such all the time and I never really know what to tell them.  I just don't have the experience.  All the stuff I started out with in my home setup years ago is either broken our out-dated.  I have relied on others that have better gear to tell me how our speakers sound.  Well, not anymore - I KNOW now.

So guess what?  Now I can honestly telly you to try that Modwright/Nuforce combo.  There may be better yet to be had, but on our Continuum 2.5's, they were absolutely breath-taking.  The only two rooms at RMAF that I thought sounded as good (if not better) after inserting the Modwright, were the Avant-garde room and the Avalon room.  I heard that the Genesis room was spectacular too.  Even if their stuff was better, I don't feel too bad.  Look at their prices.  Just wait until I buid a $30k + system. :wink:

-Bob

PS.  Is there anybody out there that has any experience with the Modwright gear and can still recommend something better?  Believe me, I'm all ears now!  Thanks!

miklorsmith

Bob's View of RMAF
« Reply #1 on: 5 Oct 2005, 10:42 pm »
I've got that preamp.  I'm running it on hypersensitive speakers with a 6-watt amp and the result is amazing.  It's exceptionally quiet as well as providing the sparkle and life you refer to.  I haven't heard anything better.

Aether Audio

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Bob's View of RMAF
« Reply #2 on: 6 Oct 2005, 12:19 am »
miklorsmith,



Quote
It's exceptionally quiet as well as providing the sparkle and life you refer to.


Thanks! - That's it..."sparkle" is the perfect word.  It's like the difference between a fine piece of crystal glassware that's at first dirty, and then after it's been cleaned and polished.  It sparkles with a shine that was always potentially there.  Nothing added - just revealed.  Cool. :D

-Bob

Chris_B

Bob's View of RMAF
« Reply #3 on: 6 Oct 2005, 01:45 am »
I added Dan's preamp this past Spring and it revealed suttle details that I hadn't heard before and added a presence to the music. Soon thereafter, I bought one of his mod'd 999ES cd players.  Dan really knows how to design and implement front end tube gear.  Highly recommended.

ScottMayo

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Re: Bob's View of RMAF
« Reply #4 on: 6 Oct 2005, 03:41 am »
Quote from: SP Pres
PS. Is there anybody out there that has any experience with the Modwright gear and can still recommend something better? Believe me, I'm all ears now! Thanks!


I use a modwright Denon 2900 as my main source, into Bryston amps. I'm exceptionally happy with the sound. I have a carousel CD player that has become little more than a motorized disc holder and a source of background music - when I want to hear what's going on, I pull the disc out and pop it into the Denon.

I remember the moment I knew the modded Denon was a keeper - the first time I heard it render "Darla's glass tap" in Finding Nemo. Freaking awesome.

lonewolfny42

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Bob's View of RMAF
« Reply #5 on: 6 Oct 2005, 04:29 am »
Hello Bob,
    Sorry we did not get to meet at the RMAF. I stopped by friday afternoon and gave a listen with Mike at the controls.[/list:u]
      As for the ModWright comments...yep, it's an excellent preamp. It's been a good match with my SP Tech's and Butler mono's. When I had my Rave in May, many commented on how good they worked together...and I agree !! Of the five preamps I own, its been the best. :inlove: [/list:u]
        Here's a shot from the
Rave.......as you see it's got center stage.[/list:u]
    If I were you, I'd grab one for future shows....always put your best foot forward !!![/list:u]
      Take care,[/list:u]
        Chris[/list:u]

modwright

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« Reply #6 on: 6 Oct 2005, 04:40 pm »
A friend just pointed this thread out to me.

First of all, thank you SP Pres for the post and for sharing your experiences.  I honestly didn't get a chance to hear your speakers in the room prior to inserting our preamp, but I agree that they sounded great that night when we put the 9.0SE in.

You know that we will gladly support you at T.H.E. Show with one of our preamps as I indicated at RMAF.

I very much appreciate the support of all of our customers and the mfrs. who used our preamps and players this year at the Rocky Mountain show.  We have already agreed to have our gear used in the Gingko Audio room and I hope that SP Tech will take us up on our offer also.  I believe that Escalante Designs will be using our gear at CES.  I'm not sure if we will be specifically showing at CES ourselves, but it is my intent for ModWright Instruments' gear to be represented well in other mfrs. rooms at the show.

The launch of the SWL 9.0SE this year has been an excellent success and I am humbled and grateful.  We also finallized and updated our Denon 3910 mods before the show and will be actively show-casing this unit also.

I am working on a phono stage design to complement the 9.0SE and this may be seen at CES.

Again, thank you to all of you for the kind words and support.  I am passionate about producing exceptional equipment at prices that most audiophiles can afford.  This should be about enjoying the music, not bragging rights.

Take care,

Dan W.

cryotweaks

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Bob's View of RMAF
« Reply #7 on: 6 Oct 2005, 05:45 pm »
Oy.  I hate when that happens.  

The McCormack sounded great in my system in SoCal, but at the show, it suffered from rolled off highs and a rather forward midrange.  We did the best we could, using cables to tame the negatives.  I thought it sounded fairly good, and we did receive quite a few complements.  But I have to admit that in the limited time I did get to hear the Modwright pre,  I was a bit peeved, and relieved at the same time.  Peeved that we couldn't keep the Modwright in the system because it did bring everything to life, and relieved to finally know what was causing the performance issues.  It was too bad that at that point, there was nothing that could be done.  Oh well.

Bill Baker

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Bob's View of RMAF
« Reply #8 on: 6 Oct 2005, 05:53 pm »
Okay, I must chime in here also. I have been exposed with Dan's work for several years now starting with our RAM Hybrid amplifiers and RAM CD25 CD player he desgned for Response Audio in the beginning. I still get inquiries on these pieces.

 The preamp?? Honestly the best I have heard up to $8k. I don't know about anything above this price as I do not have have access to $10k+ units.

 I use the SWL 9.0 not only in my showroom but also as part of a Reference system for designing and evaluation our exclusive products. At this very moment, I have the ModWright SWL 9.0 driving a pair of my Musica Bella 300B mono blocs which are powering our new Bella SP/AV-1 speakers. This combination just makes you melt in your seat. I have substituted other preamps for the evaluations (hey, not everyone has the ModWrigt) but ALWAYS come back to Dan's preamp for critical evaluation. It just does everything so right!

 I know this may come across as sounding bias being a dealer for this product but I am sure everyone who owns or has heard this unit will agree with my comments.

rustydoglim

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Bob's View of RMAF
« Reply #9 on: 7 Oct 2005, 09:54 am »
Mike must be feeling like shit but hey, cheer up. This kind of thing happened. When we were at CES 2005, we heard a lot of very good amps and speakers under performing there.  Doing a good show is tough. I guess the key to success is to get a lot of help and backup.
We will be there at RMAF next year to back up all our partners. Like SP, we're saving all our $ for CES 2006.  We have reserved TWO rooms and preparing for marketing campaign starting mid October.
We have been pretty quiet in the last few weeks busy with production and launch of 3 or 4 new products before end of the year. This is killing us  :lol:

Bill Baker

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Bob's View of RMAF
« Reply #10 on: 7 Oct 2005, 12:45 pm »
This just goes to show that what works in one room, in one location does not always work in another. I think it is important to bring along different gear to these shows to assure getting the presentation desired. Even the best gear out there will not always work together in every inviroment.

 Doesn't sound like anyone is to blame as the selected gear was very good. Hey, it happens.

Quote
We have been pretty quiet in the last few weeks busy with production and launch of 3 or 4 new products before end of the year. This is killing us


 I know this feeling as I am going through the same thing right now but for me it hasn't been the past few weeks but rather the past year :cry: .

cryotweaks

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Bob's View of RMAF
« Reply #11 on: 7 Oct 2005, 01:38 pm »
Nahh. I feel fine. 8)    The sound was still very good, just not all that  it could have been.  Believe me, for every one negative comment I heard, I heard at least ten positive.  

It was TweekGeek's first show, and I think it was a huge success.  Many new friends were made, and alot of valuable lessons learned as well.

Danny Richie

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amps and stuff
« Reply #12 on: 7 Oct 2005, 03:10 pm »
Bob, I wish you would have been there Thursday night when we dropped the Dodd Audio tube amps into the sytem. That really was a revelation.

Then there was that balanced power supply... :wink:

Aether Audio

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Bob's View of RMAF
« Reply #13 on: 7 Oct 2005, 05:59 pm »
Danny,

Man, this is killing me.  I sure wish I had been there too.  Thanks for bringing them up to the room though.  At least you know what the Continuum 2.5's were capable of.

Right now my biggest concern is that there are folks out there that were interested in our stuff (especially all the guys here on AC) that would be taking advantage of our 30% off program right now, but after hearing them at RMAF, they feel that they weren't quite up to their expectations.

Obviously we can use the $$$, but they're going to be upset later on after January as well.  We're attending this year's first Chicago Audiofest and demonstrating our Revelations with Joe Jurzec of JAM'n Audio next weekend, but I don't suppose there's likely to be a very big turn-out.  The only other show after that where folks will be able to audition our Revelations is T.H.E. Show in January, and the program will be over by then.

As it is now, there's only a handful of guys that have experienced their capabilities, and how many folks are going to be willing to take a chance based on the opinions of those few?  Probably very few.  When you're talking +$3K...people want to hear for themselves and I don't blame them.  I know I would.  Oh well, all you can do is all you can do.  Mike sure gave it his best shot and as he said, most folks were pretty impressed anyway.  Also as he said, we all learned a lot - and that's priceless.  At least from here on out I'll know what to expect from our systems and you can be sure we're gonna "knock 'em dead" next time.  Why does learning have to be so hard? :cry:  :banghead:

-Bob

Karsten

Bob's View of RMAF
« Reply #14 on: 7 Oct 2005, 08:19 pm »
It is funny that the speakers always gets the blame or credit for the sound.

I did a demo for a large group of people using a set of TP 2.1 with different amps, Belles 350 Ref, NuForce Ref 9, Berning ZH270 and Butler TDB 2250.

Initially during the demo, using the first amp in the line, people mostly commented on the speakers, but after hearing the change in sound with the other amplifiers focus changed a lot.... It was also funny to hear that people had rather different preferences, so actually there was no combination which all could agree upon as a winner, but small groups prefering the one over the other.

The SP speakers are revealing monitors indeed, so it is mostly the front end which has a real impact on the resulting sound. That is what I like about these speakers, but it also a real challange because there is nothing to mask a crappy front end.

Brg,
Karsten

Bill Baker

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Bob's View of RMAF
« Reply #15 on: 8 Oct 2005, 11:52 pm »
Amen Karsten,

 I agree it is impossible to impress everyone with a single arrangement of equipment. We can only hope that those auditioning can see through the components and appreciate the possibilities and potential of what they are auditioning.